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Epoc Digest Tue, 07 Jan 2003 Volume 01 : Number 142

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Sent to: 713 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 17 messages:

==============================

- Re: Digest #140

- RE: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 141

- Re: OPL source code from a .OPO file?

- Re: Dana

- Expansys or Clove?

- Another Psion 5mx failed

- Re: Dana

- screen cable problem

- Re: ABP

- "More" options, system files, two columns

- Dana, ABP,

- Dana

- Version of .opx files, Reverse translating OPL programs...

- Latest OPXs, screen lines

- Re: Successor of Communicator 92** series

- Re: Nokia 9210 and SonyEricsson P800

- A happy and prosperous new year!

*++++++++++&

Date: 6 Jan 2003 16:58:00 +0100

From: ALYG

(Andrew Longdon)

Subject: Re: Digest #140

For Ettore Guaia:

> First of all I want to know if someone will update the sw to implement > T9 text input on the phone sms apps.

From this, am I right in thinking the SE P800 doesn't use T9? Sounds like a backward step to me, or have they replaced it with a better system...?

For Itamar:

> Re. GPS - Yes, I use the eTrex regularly in my car. However, you do

> need a special cable for it as it needs on one side to connect with the > eTrex and the other the Psion. In which country do you live? I have a

> spare cable as well as a spare Palmtop GPS, but it would be difficult

> to send it overseas with customs etc.

I live near Manchester, UK. Can you tell me more about the Palmtop GPS, please?

I'm assuming the eTrex cable is terminated with a 9-pin D-connector which normally mates with a PC's RS232 port. I have a Psion RS232 cable and a Null modem, so, I'm assuming that the eTrex cable would mate with them...

For Vlad Arghir:

Thanx for the tips regarding GPS :-)

> ...but more stable and who would want to buy a BMW just for the computer? ;-)

I'll keep my thoughts on BMW's (particularly their drivers) to myself ;-)

For Kevin Thorne:

I've just put my Orange PAYG SIM into my contracted 6210e:

It will do data (I've just checked my email with the Psion), and the WAP works!

I'm also thinking of cancelling my contract with Orange, so you've done me a favour by asking the question!

,\ndy

*++++++++++&

Date: 6 Jan 2003 23:06:59 +0100

From: "Michael Asteriou"

Subject: RE: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 141

Hi Jim!

> I was interested in the Sharp Zaurus as it's unix. Then I hear > that they are going to do a clamshell and I got more enthused, > then heard (here) that with the new clamshell coming out at $700, > it's going to be another pocket PC

> intead of Unix.

Try this link, might interest you...

http://www.idg.com.sg/idgwww.nsf/unidlookup/F5FDECAAEBD200FE48256C470006237E ?OpenDocument

...or this one...

http://www.brighthand.com/article/Zaurus_SL5600

Cheers

Michael Asteriou

*++++++++++&

Date: 6 Jan 2003 23:36:50 +0100

From: Rolf Vonau

Subject: Re: OPL source code from a .OPO file?

Reference is made to the mail in the EPOC DIGEST V1 # 141 :

Owen H. Morgan wrote at 06.01 2003 (> ):

> I have just received a copy of a small OPL

> application (1kb) and would like to find out how

> it works. Unfortunately, I only have the .OPO

> file, not the OPL source code. I beleive there is

> a way of getting the source code if one has the

> .OPO. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Hi Owen,

please find attached the program REVTRAN. If the author didn't take measures against reverse translation, you can get the source code from APP and OPO files.

Best Regards

Rolf

Munich

http://home.arcor.de/rhvonau/index.htm

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 00:21:09 +0100

From: "Arent Kits van Heijningen[106016.3614]"

Subject: Re: Dana

On 6 Jan 2003 02:09:08 +0100

Jim Watson~Gove <jimwatsongovex AT x earthlink dot net> wrote about : Alphasmart Dana

>>I've been reading up on the Dana, thinking it might be a good way to check out the Palm OS against my needs.<<

Go to http://www.alphasmart.com and have a look at their Web BBS

>>With the move to Port Townsend Washington, I've cut a deal with my printer. I send my pages down to him via email and he inputs them into Publisher to build my magazine. This frees me from Publisher and this frees me from a Windows machine. So was thinking now's the time to move up to a Netbook.<<

The netBook has recently come down in price and it is much sturdier than

the small Psions

>>Then a slight rap against my 5mx and poof, I'm back to a classic 5 and my two Makos, both suffering minor battery problems.

I said or sometghing like that as I lost about three

days work since last backup.

Time to send the 5mx in but thought maybe now's the time to consider a

Dana - Treo combo - much cheaper than a NetBook and the 5mx that has been

going sour about once a year. With the date December 31st, 2004 (end of

Psion support) slowly sneaking up on us, maybe it's time for me to test

out other waters.<<

Dana too can eat your files , even those saved to a flashcard !

Other gotchas :

No attachments , formatted text or non-US characters in regular

CompuServe/Internet Email

No multitasking ( inability to access data through build-in apps ( like

Classic Zaurus ) , so no copy/ paste between a terminal window and say

Alphaword or Notes )

Full connectivity/sync requires Windows (+ Virtual PC on Mac/UNIX )

File conversion is done on the desktop ( no file conversion on PocketPC ,

very limited on Mac )

>>I was interested in the Sharp Zaurus as it's unix. Then I hear that they are going to do a clamshell and I got more enthused, then heard (here) that with the new clamshell coming out at $700, it's going to be another pocket PC intead of Unix.

Worse still , the small Sharp clamshell has pathetic battery life ( about

four hours )

You should seriously look at the Dana/PocketPC/Linux trio

Palm devices can directly exchange files with PocketPC if the latter runs

Linux , even direct sync is possible ( albeit of limited use as the PIM's

on PocketPC running Linux are pathetic compared to even the build-in on a

Palm device

You can type text on the Dana and then shoot it off into the PocketPC

device

>>Palms been around a while so will see if I can adapt.

Will report here how the Dana stacks up to my simple needs (email, word

processing, data, spreadsheet, agenda, and a an email book reader). <<

Let us all know both on Palmtop and here

> >Will have to keep the Psions to maintain my web site - don't think there's a Palm OS FTP program yet, and the Psion works a treat there.<<

There are FTP programs for the Palm available as freeware

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 00:34:09 +0100

From: "Simon Wolf"

Subject: Expansys or Clove?

Andy Hayes mentioned that he uses Expansys a lot and I just wanted to put in a plug for Clove (http://www.clove.co.uk). I always used to use Expansys until a few months ago and purchases ranged from my first netBook three or four years ago through to CF cards a few months ago. When I first started shopping with them I found them to be very good value for money and always helpful and courteous and quick to reply to emails. More recently (around six to nine months ago I would guess) I have found that they rarely, if ever, respond to my enquiry emails and their customer service in general has gone downhill (I actually think that this started after they acquired 21store and perhaps grew too large too quickly). I was also disappointed to get some notoriously unreliable Dane CF cards from them a few months ago (which was also the last purchase I made with them).

Recently I decided to incur the slightly higher costs and give Clove a go and I have been delighted with them. Their customer service is excellent with emails replied to promptly and they are extremely helpful, friendly and patient if you give them a ring. I also like to think that I am supporting a company that is supporting us Psion users for as long as possible (selling POS-supplied 5mx Pros and 3cs for example) and their slightly higher costs are more manageable if I think of them in those terms.

If you've never tried them I would highly recommend that you do and see what you think. Obviously the more cost conscious of you will stick with Expansys (or other lower priced suppliers) but Clove are definitely the suppliers for me.

Kind regards.

Simon Wolf

Webmaster, Epoczone.com

http://www.epoczone.com

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 01:06:21 +0100

From: Tim

Subject: Another Psion 5mx failed

All,

Well, the expected happened. One of my two remaining Psion 5mx units is clearly failing - screen cable problems and erratic reboots, hard

resets. It's done. I sent my last good Psion 5mx with my youngest daughter to college for the sake of all of the Collins dictionaries that I purchased for the Psion OS. I did purchase all of the available

dictionaries. She is a singer and needs to know the meaning of the words that she is singing.

The opportunity for list members is what should be done with the two Psion IR modems that I still have which are now useless. They have always worked well for me. I also have a Dacom Gold PCMCIA modem that

is sitting unused as well, left over from another Psion OS system now long gone. They will go on eBay unless some list member emails me with alternatives.

Several HP200LX units, an HP Jornada 720 and 568, several Psion Revos & Makos, a Psion S5, and now the Psion 5MX all are gone - either sold or failed. Except for the last Psion 5mx, my family is out of all Psion or HP products.

What's more, from the newsgroups, it appears that Microsoft has stopped all OS work for any clamshell handheld computer. As a result, HP is stopping further development of the HP720/728 line. The HP5xx series

was already killed in favor of the Compaq iPAQ - a poor choice in my engineering view.

This is all a sad sequence of events for me. I still believe in

handheld computing, but Microsoft has decided that the whole genre is insufficiently profitable. ...and HP follows Microsoft's lead.

End of line.

Tim

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 03:16:32 +0100

From: David Kramer

Subject: Re: Dana

> Date: 6 Jan 2003 02:09:08 +0100

> From: Jim Watson~Goive > Subject: Dana

> I was interested in the Sharp Zaurus as it's unix. Then I hear that they > are going to do a clamshell and I got more enthused, then heard (here) that > with the new clamshell coming out at $700, it's going to be another pocket > PC intead of Unix.

I just bought a Zaurus SL5500 for $320 because repairing the keyboard on my 5MX would have only been about $100 less, and I would still have a discontinued unsupported machine. Overall I'm quite happy with it, but I do miss things like embedding one document type inside another. I needed something with a keyboard, and running Linux means I can tweak whatever I want and download hundreds of programs.

The clamshell model, BTW, will only be available in Japan for the forseeable future. Another company (sorry, I forgot who) is going to be modifying them for English and selling them in the US (maybe the UK too, I don't know). But you're right, they are going to be hundreds of dollars more.

In a month or so they will be releasing the 5600, which will be based on a 400Mhz processor instead of a 206Mhz processor, so it's got to have a battery that's twice as big, and will also be about $200 more. No thanks.

> Palms been around a while so will see if I can adapt. Not throwing out any

My wife has one, and I really tried. I couldn't. There's a lot of great software out there for the Palm these days, but you can only do so much with the form factor and processing power, so somehow it fell short for me.

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 05:25:53 +0100

From: <ramez

Subject: screen cable problem

one week after i received my 5mx it started displaying lines on the screen.

i would like to know if anyone knows where i can get a screen cable.

Also if anyone on this list has a cable or a broken screen from which i

can save a cable please contact me.

Thank you.

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 09:32:05 +0100

From: "Sergio"

Subject: Re: ABP

On 6 Jan 2003 Andy Hayes wrote:

Subject: EpocVNC / WiFi / ABP / OPXScan / CF Prices / Orange PAYG Hi all

...

I am seriously considering using ABP this year. The only thing that stops me at the moment is my attachment to the default transactions in RMRBank. ...

Is this sort of functionality available in ABP - Is this what the category function does?

Hi Andy

In ABP you can enter a new transaction, then write the first letters of its description and press Ctrl+D; the program will search for previous entries that match your description (going back in time each time you press Ctrl+D), and fill all the other fields of the new record with the old ones, ready to be modified or simply confirmed.

The "category" functions is used to group your transactions and have detailed reports on each category.

Hope my English explanation is not too bad ;-)

Ciao

Sergio Alisi

Milano - Italy

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 12:48:01 +0100

From: Eric Lindsay

Subject: "More" options, system files, two columns

>From: "Woody B"

>Subject: Thanks! Re: Printing hlp or data files >

>Thanks for the tips on printing hlp or data files. After I asked the Digest I wandered the Internet and found a Psion site I hadn't seen before. >http://www.ericlindsay.com/index.htm IMHO this has some nice info on the Psion ROM applications and additional programs. It also mentioned the "More" option.

Glad to help. I'm happy to continue to add material to my Epoc site, so if anyone thinks I'm missing something (or have it wrong) feel free to email. Or

if you have a suggestion for other areas I could add, or places where a clearer

explanation is needed.

If for some reason the renaming of a .hlp file doesn't work, you can always from within the Help file use the File - Print to File option, and select the General printer. This will produce a reasonably good text copy of the

help file. Not as good as the method Ingmar mentioned, but it works in some programs where there are few conversion choices.

>From: Steve Truesdale (M)

>Subject: Re: System Files

The search order has Z last. I prefer to keep recognisers and system

files on C drive. I've encountered some complications when recognisers

are on a removeable CF (this wouldn't matter if you never swap CFs). However, if you swap CFs frequently, having all your system files

guaranteed to be available seems to help. I like putting a backup of the system files on my D drive, just in case. When installing a new application on a CF, I copy any new opx to the C drive. It would normally not be

found first of course. I guess if every install worked perfectly, then it would be better not to muck around with their location.

From: Manuel Campos Galvan

Subject: Two Columns in Word

As far as I can tell, Psion Word can't handle two column layouts.

I ended up doing mine using various Postscript tricks, however

that isn't convertible to MS Word (although the entire technique

and files I use transfer fine as text to any sort of computer).

Eric Lind www.avalook.com

Airlie Beach, Nth Qld, Australia ph +61 7 4948 0450

http://www.ericlindsay.com NEW Airlie-SF-Psion-Epoc

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 13:23:18 +0100

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: Dana, ABP,

Answer to : Jim Watson~Goive

Re. Dana - From your message I think portabillity is not that important for you. I would advise you to go for the netBook, as it will give you superior programs of Psion on a keyboard machine with colour screen and the netBook will continued to be supported after 2004 as well. It is a lot stronger than the series 5(MX), does not have the dreaded screen cable problem and in fact I can't remember having read in this digest about repairs on the S7/netBook (anyone ?). Add a modem (card) and you are in business. But of course I am biased, as I don't want you to cancel your subscription to the digest ...<BG>

Answer : Andy Hayes

Re. ABP - No, the category function allows you to sort the entries by categories. However, it is rather simple really as long as you give the same name to the entry. Open a new entry with the space bar, type the first few letters, press Ctrl-D and the last entry by that name appears on the screen which you can overwrite. If you get to the wrong entry, press Ctrl-D again to the next one found.

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 14:10:50 +0100

From: Cyril Catt

Subject: Dana

Jim, [Watson~Goive] the Dana does appear to be a very appealing machine. It has most of the characteristics of the Psion which I came to rely on as a constant companion over several years. Unfortunately, with Psion's failure to implement easy Macintosh file exchange in its more recent machines, I was forced to seek another replacement when the dreaded flat cable failed.

But everybody has their own specific needs in a PDA. As I see it, the good features which the Dana and Psion share are:

* Basic computing capabilities - wordprocessor, spreadsheet, database, diary (although the Dana may need extra software to match the Psion suite). These cover almost all of my computing time. I prefer to confine graphics, internet activities and emails to the office network. * 'Instant on' operating system. This allows effective use of short or uncertain periods of time - TV ad breaks, waiting for buses, trains, planes (and my wife and daughter !)

* Inbuilt keyboard. A keyboard is essential for my computing. It allows the rapid input of data, editing of material, and other activities. But the tiny or folding keyboards available for most current PDAs are simply too slow, too much nuisance, or a downright awkward additional item to carry. I gave up on the Palm for this reason. I've gone back to writing notes in a filofax and having to key them in on return to the office, or using a digital camera as a photocopier and keying in or using OCR at the office.

* Horizontal screen format. Spreadsheet work, and to a lesser extent, wordprocessing, is far more efficiently done with a screen that allows at least a dozen or so lines of some 60 to 90 characters. The Dana gets top marks for this aspect.

* Larger screen size. This provides type of a sufficiently large size to permit the use of the machine at a convenient distance - on your lap or at a desk.

* Good battery life. For doing a day's work in library archives, or on an international flight, or a week's work at a site remote from power supplies, I require a battery life far in excess of ordinary laptops. I am not particularly disadvantaged by having to use a monochrome display or a non-touch-sensitive screen.

* Replaceable batteries. As my work is often remote from power supplies, I must have a machine that can be powered by conventional, easy-to-get-anywhere batteries. In any case, a spare set of AA cells is usually smaller and lighter than a mains charger, and several of my other devices use AA cells, so can provide emergency backup.

* Easy file exchange with my office Macintosh network. The Palm OS and P3 series allow this.

* Data backup. The Psion and Dana allow backup on various card storage. * (I also prefer to have cheaper, separate, machines for separate functions, rather than a single expensive integrated telephone / PDA / camera / TV / radio / music centre / website / recorder / etc...).

Unfortunately, the Dana is less desirable than the Psion for my purposes in a few important areas:

* Bulk. The Dana takes up some 60 per cent more volume than a Macintosh laptop, and nearly ten times the space of a Psion palmtop. This implies a need for a second bag / briefcase, which is an awkward item in remote sites, or with limited luggage size allocations.

* Mass. Although less than half the weight of a Macintosh laptop, the Dana is three times the weight of a Psion.

* Price. Although the Australian price of the Dana is some 40 per cent higher than in the USA, it is still only a third the cost of a Macintosh laptop. However, it is half again as expensive as the Psion, which came with far better integrated software. Adding effective software to the Palm greatly adds to its price. I suspect that adding in the cost of software to match the suites that come in the Psions' would bring the Dana's price to double that of the Psion.

Australia generally has a hot climate. I seldom wear more than a pair of shorts and a tee shirt, so there is just not the range of pockets which clothing in a colder climate would provide. To carry keys, wallet, spare change, glasses, pen, etc, I require a shoulder bag. It also carries the digital camera I use as a portable photocopier for archival research. I would also carry the Psion at all times 'just in case'. But I don't want to have to lug another bag with a laptop size machine 'just in case'. Several women in business or academic positions have supported this point of view, telling me that they liked the Psion because it fitted in their handbags, so they did not need to cart another bag (with a laptop) to meetings etc..

In conclusion, the feature which I dislike most in the Dana is its bulk. I just cannot fit an A4 sized machine into most of my travels. An A5 sized machine would be barely acceptable. And the A6 sized clamshell format of the Psion is probably the smallest that a smaller-than-standard keyboard can be made and still be acceptably usable.

Best regards

Cyril Catt

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 17:52:13 +0100

From: Trygve Henriksen

Subject: Version of .opx files, Reverse translating OPL programs...

Greetings!

Keith Giles wrote:

> So this brings up a problem in my mind. Even though files may have

> the same name, are there older and newer versions? Let's say I

> have an app on my machine which had an opx file created 1 years

> ago, and I install another app today which has the same opx file

> name but was an older version created 2 years ago, will the older

> version overwrite the newer version?

That depends entirely on how the author made the install files.

If he made a proper .SIS file with the .SIS files for the .opx files embedded the system should detect this automatically. (Version information is stored in the stub .sis file left in the \system\install folder. )

If the stub file has been removed, or the creator of the .sis install script just included the .opx files directly, though....

Owen H. Morgan asked:

> I have just received a copy of a small OPL application (1kb) and

> would like to find out how it works. Unfortunately, I only have the

> .OPO file, not the OPL source code. I beleive there is a way of

> getting the source code if one has the .OPO. Anyone care to

> enlighten me?

The program you're looking for is RevTran. (Try a google search for it)

This exists for both SIBO and EPOC, though, so make certain that you download the correct version. (The EPOC version only runs on an EPOC machine, and of course only reverses OPL32 type programs.)

There are a few 'anti-revtran' systems out there, and even though the changes they do to the translated code is tivial, RevTran has NOT been updated to handle it. (The author doesn't want to)

The full source of RevTran is supposedly available online

(i've never bothered to look), so anyone who has the know-how can work around the anti-revtran measures. (Maybe that's what that buddy of yours has done)

> I have also come across OPA and OBD files for an S3 program

> which I would like to see the source code for if possible. I don't

> have an S3, but would like to try to write something similar for EPOC.

You'll most likely need the SIBO version of RevTran and a S3a or better.

(The S3 runs a slightly older version of OPL)

> People who think they know it all are especially annoying to those of

> us who do.

Too true...

:-)

Trygve

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 20:27:29 +0100

From: "Wayne & Jane"

Subject: Latest OPXs, screen lines

Dear Keith

The best way to ensure latest OPX's is to always install using .SISintall files. They will only install the latest version of OPX and notoverwrite latest versions with out dated ones.

Dear Ramez

Lines on the screen spell disaster. The screen cable is starting tocrack - and usually starts in the middle where there is a hole drilled -for some unknown reason. If you want to fix it yourself I recommend youdo it sooner before the crack spreads through the rest of the cable. Myfirst repair lasted 1 week. Then I made some major modifications toprevent the cable bending so much (the major design problem) andreinforced it. It has lasted 2 months so far with no problems. I canput up what I did on a web page with photo's if some are interested.Took about 20 minutes to do, start to finish and I'm quite pleased withthe result!

Best wishes

Wayne

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 21:22:41 +0100

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Successor of Communicator 92** series

Arent,

<< ... the sad reality is that the successor will be the 6800 series ... >>

I have Nokia's press releases concerning the 6800 and *nowhere* does it say that the 9210(i) is no more and that the 6800 is its replacement. Below a concise description of the 6800 from Nokia's November 4th press release.

[Quote]

The Nokia 6800, with its innovative design, is the first messaging device optimized for efficient text input. Mobile professionals can take advantage of its easy-to-use full keyboard for personal information management and messaging or otherwise inputting text. The Nokia 6800 also comes with a high-quality color display, SyncML support, email support, a stereo FM radio, as well as Java and MMS support. The dual band Nokia 6800 is expected to start shipping in the first quarter 2003 in Europe, Africa and Asia.

[Unquote]

Look at the specifications and you'll find they mirror those of the 5510 with the following exceptions:

- Colour display

- Additional POP3, IMAP4, SMTP and MMS support

- More 'conservative' styling with folding QWERTY keyboard

In other words, it's the concept of the 5510 translated towards the business user. So, if the 6800 is supposed to replace an existing model it replaces the 5510 rather than the 9210(i).

<< ... the functionality will in the future reside on the network rather than in the device ... >>

That won't be case for the mobile device market as a whole. There's no problem in network operators offering distributed application services. It's fine when a one of a country's network operators decides to solely concentrate on such services. But there will be problem when all mobile operators make the switch as consumer and competition watchdog authorities will step in and prevent it.

Reason is that the operators have to give (mobile) devices proven to comply with GSM, GPRS and other applicable standards access to their networks. They can't make a distinction based on the number and type of applications the device is equipped with. What's more, no network operator will be able to explain to the consumer, as well as the watchdog authorities, why what's acceptable use of its network in 2002 should no longer be acceptable in 2003. Nor will the device manufacturers be able to explain why their 2003 models can no longer do what their 2002 models were perfectly capable of.

We're certainly going to see network operators offer distributed application services. Somebody who only occasionally uses a word processor or spreadsheet while on the move will be able to buy a (relatively) simple mobile device and rent these applications when needed. But we're certainly not going to see the fully equipped 'all singing - all dancing' mobile device disappear. There are a number of practical questions that distributed application services don't answer to the satisfaction of a sizeable group of people.

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 21:22:49 +0100

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Nokia 9210 and SonyEricsson P800

Arent,

<< It appears that Ericsson started shipping of the P800 in fear that little upstart Neonode could eat into their market for communicators as well that the window of opportunity for this product could close >>

As if SonyEricsson doesn't have to fear Nokia, Palm, Sharp, Handspring, Orange, Samsung, O2 or Hewlett-Packard but has to fear a small company and a product hardly any consumer knows about. Come on guy, SonyEricsson is old and wise enough not to be influenced by Neonode at this point in time. The company has worked long and hard on the P800 but missed the Christmas sales. It's not the only company to do so as it has become a tradition through the years for new phone models to overshoot the Christmas sales period.

<< ... but after that Nokia introduced the 68** series as being the successor ... >>

The company didn't - check Nokia's press releases.

<< ... nothing was heard about a "real" successor for the Communicator ... >>

In other words, the information we have is so little and of such doubtful quality that it's impossible to come to any conclusion at this stage. There's a maxim in science which applies here : Absence of proof should never be taken as proof of absence.

<< No , it is not "Symbian is dying" but Symbian becoming totally invisible for both the application developer and the end user as it is completely buried underneath .Net and Java >>

Which begs the question whether you've actually ever worked with the Symbian based R380s, P800, 9210 or 7650. Those who have are able to tell you that it's very much visible. Those who have developed for it are able to tell you the same. However, I doubt you'll believe them as you tend always to pick the most outlandish explanation possible.

By the way, as the Symbian partners, as well as Symbian itself, are members of the Open Mobile Alliance (OMA) it's highly doubtful that they'll go for Microsoft's .Net. Whatever .Net means as it's one of those typical Microsoft fog-of-words technologies hardly anybody outside Microsoft is able to make sense of.

<< Could be a great business phone , but future is clouded as it is only becoming available near the end of its lifetime and probably will be withdrawn for a less functional successor in Q2/Q3 2003 ( shades of Nokia 92**/68** here ?) >>

There's nothing in the P800's specifications which demonstrates tat it won't be able to compete with Nokia's 9210, 7650 and 3650, the Palm Tungsten-W, Sharp GX10, Handspring Treo 270, Hewlett-Packard 928, O2's XDA, the Samsung SPH-i330 or Neonode's N1. That these mobile devices don't have exactly the same specifications isn't that much of a problem as they're not targeted at exactly the same people with exactly the same requirements. Why bother about 802.11 wireless LAN when a simple point-to-point Bluetooth link is sufficient?

As for your "shades of Nokia 92**/68** here?" - why don't you think it through and face the consequences. When we're all shortly to be buried underneath J2ME and .Net distributed application services by the networks it has an effect on *all* mobile devices. Irrespective of manufacturer or operating system. The future will then not only be bleak for Symbian OS but also for PalmOS, PocketPC (Smartphone Edition or not), VxWorks, Mobile Linux, QNX and what have you. All the mobile devices I've mentioned above will be gone in a year's time. Including the Neonode N1 that makes you so technologically horny. The N1 is an instant-dinosaur by the time it get on the market - you don't even have to add a the proverbial hot water and stir.

Larry Ellison's idea of the netPC as client to a corporate distributed application and data environment didn't really make it in the marketplace. It has its purposes, and is being used, but not to the extent Ellison expected. Even in the well regulated and controlled corporate environment. The idea that J2ME and .Net will be the end of the self-contained mobile device is therefore equally flawed. Mobile distributed network application technology has too many practical snags and pitfalls for it to become the dominant technology.

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 7 Jan 2003 21:23:00 +0100

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: A happy and prosperous new year!

Dear All,

I'd like to wish you a very happy 2003. May this year bring you the fame, health, fortune, love and contentment you've (secretly) longed for.

I also like to thank those who have contributed to the 136 EPOC Digests of the past year. With special thanks to the Digest staff who work so dilligently in the background.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

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