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Epoc Digest Sun, 30 Mar 2003 Volume 01 : Number 216
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Sent to: 772 subscribers
In today's Epoc Digest 17 messages:
==============================
- Re: CF to larger CF
- Antonio Nisiotis/010/DCAG/DCX ist außer Haus.
- Re: New 5mx
- Re: Miniature laptop style handhelds
- RE: MP3
- Changing Batteries and Backing Up
- Which PCMCIA Compact Flash Card Adapter for netBook?
- RE: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 215 (3)
- Re: CF to larger CF
- Re: E Drive
- Re: on why we do not have colour 5 MX etc.
- Colour 5mx, CF transfers
- opera + personal banking / mp3
- missing links, battery life, Intelligent life forms, MBMView, Culture,
- mobipocket, colour scheme,
- C700 vs. Sony Vaio PCG-C1VN
- Re: Let's at least try for a new 5mx, MBMView arguments
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Mar 2003 12:09:59 +0000
From: "Andrew Burns"
Subject: Re: CF to larger CF
Another way to transfer if you don't have another psion handy is to free up as much internal as possible and transfer as much as you can to the internal from the 64mb and then change cards and transfer the info to the 128mb. You would have to do this quite a few times and it would take a while but you would only need one psion for this.
Regards
Andy B
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Mar 2003 12:35:03 +0000
From: <Antonio.Nisiotis
Subject: Antonio Nisiotis/010/DCAG/DCX ist außer Haus.
Ich werde ab 28.03.2003 nicht im Büro sein. Ich kehre zurück am 03.04.2003.
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Mar 2003 15:14:39 +0000
From: Andrew Gregory
Subject: Re: New 5mx
I'll accept the invitation to dream a little :-) I'm preaching to the converted when I say that I consider EPOC to be the best PDA platform around.
Having just bought a malayBook, I am now certain that I will never accept a grayscale screen again :-) So I'll start there:
1) Colour 640x240 screen. Passive or active, doesn't matter. I think passives use less power and if so, that's what I'll have. And something reflective so it doesn't disappear in daylight. Years ago I remember
fooling with a Compaq iPaq - it looked just fine indoors under flouros, and when I took it outside into the bright Australian sunshine it looked even better!
2) Upgradable OS in RAM, again like netBook. Actually, just like the 5mx pro. So, 32MB.
3) 190MHz CPU, just like the netBook :-) Well, maybe not necessarily, just enough to handle decent...
4) ...MP3 playback support, stereo at a good bitrate. Stereo headphone socket which switches off internal speaker when phones connected. Continues playback when closed up and screen is off.
5) Built-in apps support import/export of desktop file formats - MS Word/RTF, Excel/123, GIF/JPEG/BMP/PNG. Basically build nConvert functionality into it. That way the PsiWin converters wouldn't be needed.
6) USB port as slave. *No* USB master support - USB spec requires masters be able to supply 500mA which is unreasonable for a PDA. If it uses the existing USB drive system, the very dodgy PsiWin explorer integration could be dumped, not to mention the flakey comms.
7) Keep RS-232 serial port and IR port.
8) CF2 slot able to run a Microdrive or WiFi card.
9) Lion battery. User replacable - just like .... the netBook :-)
10) Bluetooth built in.
11) Keep ER5. I'm very happy with what I've got. Psion Teklogix have an ER5 that supports Ethernet, GPRS, etc. What more do we need?
Speaking of points 5+6, PsiWin might be eliminated *entirely* making it so much easier to connect to PCs. On second thoughts, some sort of diary sync would still be needed, wouldn't it? Still, the PC side is much simplified and for basic file transfer no special PC software would be needed.
Show me the engineer who could fit all this into a 5mx case, and I'll show you a guy who could walk on water :-)
--
Andrew Gregory,
<URL:http://www.scsoftware.com.au/family/andrew/>
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Mar 2003 15:36:00 +0000
From: "Mike Dyer"
Subject: Re: Miniature laptop style handhelds
"Jim Cooke" Said:
"I fail to see the excitement being generated by the Sharp C700. It is only slight smaller than a Sony Vaio PCG-C1VN. "
The point is it is the size of a Revo, your Sony is huge in comparison...
Regards,
Mike Dyer.
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Mar 2003 17:23:26 +0000
From: "Neil Thompson"
Subject: RE: MP3
Thanks to all those people who contacted me both on and off digest with information about creating MP3 tracks suitable for use on an EPOC machine.
I thought I would send in details of what I found just in case others might want to use it.
You can get a free Psion MP3 player (EPlayM) from
http://www.geocities.com/zavorine/epoc/mp3.htm also check out the MP3 voice recorder and other excellent font utilities.
To re-encode MP3 files into something suitable for use on the Psion I found RazorLAME to be easy to use , quick and free, it is available for use on the PC from http://www.dors.de/razorlame/index.php.
Another post asked about where to get classic comedy shows from, well take a look at http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbc7/comedy/ which repeats many classics, such as I'm sorry I haven't a clue, Dad's Army and The news quiz.
For a utility to capture output from your sound card directly and turn it into MP3 files - to allow you to capture streamed comedy from BBC7 into MP3 for instance, try the PC shareware MCIRecorder from
http://www.realrecorder.net
Finally a small number of free audio books: http://www.booksonmp3.com/
Anyone got any others?
Happy listening!
Neil
www.psionfile.co.uk
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Mar 2003 18:33:14 +0000
From: Philip S. Adkins Potter
Subject: Changing Batteries and Backing Up
Hi,
Edgar Brazda said "Someone complained about losing data during changing of batteries. My 2 pence: Always change batteries when the EXTERNAL POWER IS ON! (It is useful not only for avoiding the above mentioned problem but lengthens the life of the backup batteries.)"
Two things the first of which is 'he is right' . . .
But (the second thing) not everyone uses external power that way (I know that Revo/Mako users have little choice and netBook/s7 users have built-in rechargeable batteries and a PSU - I use a 5mx).
I have a POD docking station which has my PSU permanently connected to it (alright, semi-permanently). But I have a CF card and *all* my C drive is backed up to my CF card as a ZIP file (using Navigator).
The POD is a wonderfully useful beast but uses the Honda connector for external power blocking the main battery cover and changing the main batteries is easier and quicker without disconnecting the PSU. So I don't.
Most of which is irrelevant if you have to change batteries "in the wild" as most of us have done. And camera batteries (and their contacts) aren't perfectly reliable.
The most sensible suggestion is to have a CF card and use part of it to back up the C drive regularly
*_and_*
before changing batteries. There are many utilities to do this, some free. And close and save all you can before changing batteries.
If there is a reason not to do this (what), Sod's Law says "EXPECT TROUBLE". So Revo/Mako owners should. And *they* particularly should back up their data to another computer regularly too.
The old, old rule is "back up, and then back it up as well"; it isn't foolproof, nothing is, but it's as good as anything and better than most things.
Belt and braces makes sense for any battery user who relies, as we do, on batteries to keep their life, and their Psion, functioning.
And our computers work when the mains is cut!
Take care,
Phil.
"He who gambles picks his own pocket."
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Mar 2003 19:21:52 +0000
From: "Woody B"
Subject: Which PCMCIA Compact Flash Card Adapter for netBook?
I have an MalayBook and was looking to add a PCMCIA adapter in the E drive so I could place a compact flash for backup purposes or storage. Reading the netBook manual it looks like it will take either a I or II type adapter. Correct?
Is there any advantage for either adapter in the netBooks? Seems the II cost about $15 USD and a I for $8? Any comments, suggestions, problems of using the E drive in this fashion? (Also placed this question in the Psion Newsgroup)
Thanks, WoodyB
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*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Mar 2003 20:38:42 +0000
From: Crookes
(Philip Crookes)
Subject: RE: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 215 (3)
From: "Gary Y Reyes" Subject: MBMView - A Dead Horse???
I think it will be good to see if this program can be kept active, and I applaud Rolf's offer to discuss it with the family. Let's see what that initiative brings.
Edgar Brazda suggested that
> on a chat forum I heard more complaints from users
> (I think Martin Guthrie is one of the moderators)
> who *paid* for there MBMV at Handango in the last
> weeks, but got no code from the author,
> and asked the forum about the author's availability.
> In strict business terms it is now the family's
> responsibility to step forward, legally they can
> be litigated, sued.
I don't think so. I don't know what is Handango, but if they have been taking money for something they don't own, then they are the ones that can be sued - or if they acted in ignorance of the situation, they can just give the money back. Usually in law you can't inherit a debt. I imagine Dutch law would be the same as New Zealand law (which I know about) in this matter. The estate can be liable, and debts should be settled out of an estate before probate is granted (the will is formally filed) which means that the heirs may get less money, but the heirs themselves (in this case the family of the late programmer) should have no liability themselves for anything. And I will personally volunteer to deliver a vigorous pedal orchidectomy* to anyone who imagines they could or should bring such a claim against a family that are still getting used to the idea that a young one of them died. *pedal orchidectomy = kicking the goolies off, wearing my steel-capped New Zealand rugby boots.
From: Kevin Thorne
Subject: Let's at least try for a new 5mx
Reply to Franco COZZAN:
<What about a contest within the Epoc digest, to design the most-wanted 5 mx / netBook successor ? Then send it to Psion / Teklogik and see if we move something. Likely not, but what about trying rather than sobbing ?>
<It will almost certainly do no good at all now but I applaud you for trying. One thing for certain - I'd much rather try to do my bit to persaude Psion that we WANT a modernised 5mx and fail trying rather than not try and just sit and just give up (and sob!) If we don't even try we can't moan when this wonderful PDA bites the dust. Let's at least try. My own modernisation wishes for the 5mx would go as follows:
1 Ditch the green duckpond screen for a high-resolution colour TFT (naturally!)
2 Power it with a modern user replaceable li-ion power pack (essential for "1")
3 Give it Bluetooth to allow it to act as a proper "communicator" with new phones
4 Upgrade the hardware to support multimedia (well, at least a headphone jack!)>
My wishlist.
1. Same form factor
2. Same screen size but color TFT (or OLED) screen
3. EPOC 5, with the same software built in, and better printer support
4. USB 1.1 port (with external power supply if needed, like the old Psion parallel adaptor)
5. PMCIA port (rather than Bluetooth, which is too limited)
6. Drivers for more of the current range of 802.11b cards
7. A headphone jack
7. Room for another pair of AA cells, meaning that we could have two parallel pairs of 2500 mAh NiMh cells to give a decent battery life. It's too expensive to carry a spare Li-on battery, plus it's decaying from the moment you bought it even if you don't use it.
I wonder if Psion would be willing to license the current design for future development. If they would, then in addition to the license cost (which could be based on royalty per unit sold) the development costs would probably be about GBP 1 million to bring the device up to a first production run, plus marketing costs of up to GBP 20 million in Europe. The US market would require a partner willing to put up the $30 or so million you'd have to spend to make any impression at all, and I don't think would justify the effort. Remember you'd have to set up distribution, negotiate and pay for shelf space in major outlets, meet US consumer law requirements on warranty and repair coverage, be present in the computer and non-computer press and perhaps even buy some tv ads. Plus you'd have to insure against tort actions under the onerous US product liability laws. That costs.
At this point the maths become interesting. If a production run of 250 000 could be assured, and the machines were outsourced to China, we might expect that each machine could roll off the line for around GBP 100 (USD/EUR 150). Add in development and marketing costs and we are sitting at a retail price point of around GBP 299 (USD/EUR 470), assuming almost all the production is sold. But we still haven't made a profit, nor paid for any future development work for the next product. We've covered our costs, no more, and established a good user base for software and add-ons. And we have to have sold and delivered 250 000 machines, and supported them in the various markets we've addressed. I'd say we should major on UK/Ireland, Germany and France, to keep localisation costs down. There could also be some small market for the UK product in Canada, Australia and New Zealand, and it's possible that a market could be developed in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, but these markets would need to be supplied initially from the UK/Chinese production run. Of course, I made up all these figures, and I'd welcome better numbers from people who know more about such matters than I do (meaning the entire population of the known universe and their dog).
The alternative would be for a user group to license development rights in ER5 software and hardware from Psion, again on a royalty basis, with a view to enhancing existing machines. That is a much more fruitful model, because marketing costs can be limited to the numbers in the user group (say 500 based on the readership of this digest) and it may be that software and hardware development can be had free or for goodwill cost. But Psion might say that because the netBook runs on ER5, and is still a current model, if not in current production, they don't want to license the software to anyone else. I wonder where they are getting the 1000 netBook machines they have just sold to the Swiss railway administration?
There would have to be a cottage industry of re-manufacturing machines, using as a basis the several thousand machines with busted screens-failed cables that might still exist. And it all depends on the availability of a color screen in the same size and shape as the exisiting one - or close enough to make no difference.
When I am chosen Master of the Universe (an appointment that is so far strangely absent from my CV) I would order it so at once. Until then....
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Mar 2003 22:42:07 +0000
From: Alan Morris
Subject: Re: CF to larger CF
Howard Weissman wrote:-
<< I would like to transfer all data from a 64MB CF to a 128MB CF without using a PC.>>
There have been a few complex suggestions. But why not close all apps to give as much free memory on C:.
Then copy folder by folder from 64MB CF to C: then to 128MB CF.
If a folder is too large for memory then just split it.
--
Alan R Morris, G4ENS.
Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, UK.
Using a Psion 7 & Nokia 6210e
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Mar 2003 22:42:26 +0000
From: Alan Morris
Subject: Re: E Drive
"Michael Degn" wrote:-
<< All you need is CompactFlash PC Card adapter (I've got a SanDisk one, but every brand will do). >>
I bought one of these adaptors shortly after I bought my Psion 7 for use with solid state CF cards. Later I bought an IBM 1 Gb hard disk Type II CF card, but unlike those bought by others earlier, did not come with an adapter.
The hard drive does not fit into my adapter. Keep this in mind if you might buy an IBM disk later.
--
Alan R Morris, G4ENS.
Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, UK.
Using a Psion & Nokia 6210e.
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Mar 2003 22:42:36 +0000
From: Alan Morris
Subject: Re: on why we do not have colour 5 MX etc.
<< What about a contest within the Epoc digest, to design the most-wanted 5 mx / netBook successor ? Then send it to Psion / Teklogik and see if we move something. Likely not, but what about trying rather than sobbing ? >>
I think the major problem is that there are so many opinions, that it would result in an impossible machine.
Just take the colour issue. I have a Psion 7 (as well as a 5mx, Revo+, 3mx in everyday use) and the colour is not suitable for displaying colour pictures from my digital cameras. This 256 colour screen is only just adequate as a simple preview for pictures. However, it's very good for displaying colour maps, a major interest of mine. I'm not sure why Psion selected this number of colours. Any suggestions?
In fact a 16 colour display would be just as good for maps and most other applications, which would be suitable for the existing 5mx design of 16 level grey scale.
However, many would want to have a better colour resolution.
--
Alan R Morris, G4ENS.
Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, UK.
Using a Psion & Nokia 6210e.
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Mar 2003 23:59:20 +0000
From: Kevin Thorne
Subject: Colour 5mx, CF transfers
Reply to Andy Beale:
Subject: Colour 5mx
<I'd jump at the chance to buy a colour version of the 5mx. As I've mentioned before, I bet it wouldn't be a complete redesign to produce one.>
I'd also jump at a colour 5mx Andy but I wouldn't want it run from AA cells (they would have far greater power demands placed upon them). This would mean a redesign to accomodate a new power source. This new power source would require previously absent charging circuitry to be incorporated into the S5's chassis. The processor would probably need to be beefed up to run colour too. It's not that this couldn't be done, it's just that it would require a lot of expensive retooling to do it as the machine would ultimately need some redesign. Technically reasonably easy but I suspect practically rather costly. But it's an interesting subject to debate.
Reply to Howard Weissman:
Subject: CF to larger CF
<I would like to transfer all data from a 64MB CF to a 128MB CF without using a PC.
Any ideas?>
You don't say which Psion you are using but my guess is it's not a S7/netBook but a S5 (otherwise you could simply use a CF to PC card adaptor in "E" drive and transfer the data between "D" and "E"). Well, when I had only a 5mx at my disposal I shutted data between "C" and "D" until I had copied all the data across to the bigger CF. It took a bit of effort but wasn't too bad, considering the 5mx has around 14Mb of storage space in RAM to play with, so I was able to transfer about 62Mb of data in 5 CF swops.
Regards
Kevin Thorne
*++++++++++&
Date: 30 Mar 2003 00:42:19 +0000
From: "Saj Jumaani"
Subject: opera + personal banking / mp3
Keith Giles wrote:
<Re: Opera + personal banking. I may be wrong, but I thought Saj was asking about the Opera browser on a PC.>
you're right I was.
<...you are not required to pay for Opera if you're willing to put up with a small ad banner.>
I hate ad banners.
<I have no trouble accessing any of my bank accounts or credit
card accounts.>
me too (but using ie). I want to switch to opera as it is faster and doesn't need much memory. (or so I thought?)
To Kevin Collins:
Tah! mate for the epoc mp3 player you sent. It works!
*++++++++++&
Date: 30 Mar 2003 02:09:01 +0000
From: Itamar Engelsman
Subject: missing links, battery life, Intelligent life forms, MBMView, Culture,
Answer to: andybeale
Re.: missing links - The difference is that a scientific theory claims to be just that, scientific, and accordingly needs to be proven by the rules of science. Religion is not scientific and therefore has a different set of rules. One cannot compare one with the other nor judge both with the same set of rules. Sometimes one will confirm the other, at other times they will contradict each other. But you are right, we'll keep of the subject.
Answer to: Arne Christensen
Re. battery life - The battery life is very much dependent on how you use your Psion. Writing a lot to the CF card or not, using modem, communications and IR connection all affect the battery life. And of course the type of batteries used.
Answer to: Martin Yirrell
Re. Intelligent life forms - It is indeed not a subject for this digest, unless we would try to prove that the evolution of the Psion machines from beginning to end fits the Darwin theory ..... ? <BG>
Answer to: Rolf Brunsting
Re. MBMView - Great decision, thanks for your efforts, and success !
Answer to: Gordon Love
Re. Culture - According to the shorter Oxford English Dictionary the definition of culture is "the training and refinement of mind, tastes and manners; the condition of being thus trained and refined; the intellectual side of civilisation". As it is again not an EPOC matter (unless you want to discuss whether EPOC users are cultured people or not <BG>) I'll leave it for all to judge this themselves.
Best regards,
Itamar Engelsman
London, UK
*++++++++++&
Date: 30 Mar 2003 02:09:03 +0000
From: Itamar Engelsman
Subject: mobipocket, colour scheme,
Answer to: Jaan Sass
Re.: mobipocket - Could you describe how this works for you and how you set it up ?
Answer to: Keith Giles
RE. colour scheme - No problems, no secrets here, it's on it's way to you.
Best regards,
Itamar Engelsman
London, UK
*++++++++++&
Date: 30 Mar 2003 09:32:28 +0000
From: Peter Rand
Subject: C700 vs. Sony Vaio PCG-C1VN
Hi Jim,
This is a bit of a theoretical discussion, since I've never used a Sharp C700 or Sony Vaio PCG-C1VN, but I'd like to have a stab at answering some of your questions.
1. I fail to see the excitement being generated by the Sharp C700. It is only
slightly smaller than a Sony Vaio PCG-C1VN.
Slightly smaller? The C700 weighs in at about 225g, while the C1VN weighs in at four times as much at 0.98 kg (data from http://www.transmeta.com/everywhere/products/notebooks/sony/vaio_c1vn.html).
So while the C700 is definitely a machine which can be comfortably carried in one's shirt or pants pocket, the C1VN is not. For many users, that alone is the overriding consideration.
C700 1: C1VN 0
2. This is a full-fledged Windows laptop running Windows 2000 Professional.
That's fine and dandy if you're a Windows fan. I have Windows at work, and it's ok, but I've always preferred to run non-Windows machines at home. That's why I use EPOC/PalmOS instead of Windows/WinCE. So the C700 lets users keep a distance from Windows at home, while with the C1VN you're totally locked in to the whims of Redmond - not a pleasant thought for some people.
C700 2: C1VN 0
3. I know that there are some Linux fanatics who will think the C700 is really cool but the software base for Linux is simply not there compared to Windows.
True, but most of the basic software is already included with the C700, and many third-party apps for Linux are freeware.
C700 2 1/2: C1VN 1/2
4. With the Sony, you don't have to worry about synchronizing with Outlook because it's already there.
A non-issue for me, since I don't use Outlook.
5. Same with Word and Excel.
The C700 includes Hancom Office Suite which offers Word and Excel compatibily. But probably not 100% compatibility like the Sony C1VN.
C700 2 1/2: C1VN 1 1/2
6. The only downside is the lack of instant on.
I wouldn't even consider purchasing a machine without instant on.
C700 3 1/2: C1VN 1 1/2
7. I can buy one of these right now at Costco for $1299 with no worries about Japanese localizations and convoluted warranty problems.
The C700 is $699, the C1VN is $1299. I understand Dynamism does the localization and offers excellent warranty service, so this is not really an issue. $699 is a lot for a small machine, but it seems to me that $1299 is much worse.
C700 4 1/2: C1VN 1 1/2
8. If I'm going to buy something that's the size of small laptop, then I'll get
a real laptop, not another PDA. Now, if the C700 had some thing like 10-12
hours battery life, I'd likely take a second look. Right now, it seems to
have most of the problems of a laptop and none of the advantages.
Hmm.... size of a small laptop? The C700 fits in a pocket (is 4x lighter than the C1VN), it isn't tainted by Microsoft, it has instant on, offers Office compatibility, there's lots of free software available, and it's half the price of the C1VN. Plus it can be used either in PDA mode or in keyboard mode.
I guess that explains why there is excitement being generated by the Sharp C700. It's far smaller, more powerful and less expensive than anything in its class on the market right now.
Regards,
Peter
*++++++++++&
Date: 30 Mar 2003 10:04:19 +0000
From: Owen Morgan
Subject: Re: Let's at least try for a new 5mx, MBMView arguments
Howdy!
Kevin Thorne replied to Franco Cozzan (> ):
> My own modernisation wishes for the
> 5mx would go as follows:
> 1 Ditch the green duckpond screen for a
> high-resolution colour TFT (naturally!)
Yes, but make it optional. Some of us will still want a black and white for realy grrreat battery life, (but not a duckpond... :o)
> 2 Power it with a modern user replaceable li-ion
> power pack (essential for "1")
Why not use a standard pack that is used in a major brand of mobile phone or similar item so extra packs won't cost a fortune and then make it quick and easy to change the battery in the field. (What about two batteries so empty ones could be hot swapped? Might take too much space though.)
> 3 Give it Bluetooth to allow it to act as a proper
> "communicator" with new phones
Of course.
> 4 Upgrade the hardware to support multimedia
> (well, at least a headphone jack!)
The colour option should have good enough colour resolution to be able to be used as a photo album. With only 256 colours like the netBook, colour wouldn't be worth the higher price and poorer battery performance for me. I don't really need fantastic sound on a palmtop (I've just bought a 20gig MP3 player), but a mic connection, line in and line out would be useful.
> And that's it really.
A USB port (and Firewire?) is essential and the file system should allow the drives in the Psion to be mounted as external drives on the PC (without the need for Psiwin). It would be preferable if it were also possible to mount the PC (or Mac) drives as external drives on the Psion. It would also be very useful if the USB port could be used to connect other peripherals to the Psion, not just to connect the Psion to another computer.
Oh, and by all means, don't discard the good old RS232 port. I'd never buy a computer without an RS232.
> Keep that beautiful
> keyboard, round off the square edges to make it
> look more contemporary, retain its approximate
> dimensions (or possibly slightly smaller)
But don't sacrifice the CF in order to make the unit smaller. In fact, give it two CF ports and make at least one of them full spec, not just for memory cards. My stone age HP200LX MS-DOS palmtop is about the same size as a 5ive and has a full spec PCMCIA port, so it is possible.
> and retain ER5 (which I think is more functional than
> ER6/7).
I agree. As an alternative, make it backwards compatible with ER5 files and applications. (I don't know ER6 well enough to comment on what else would be needed to make it as versatile as ER5.)
> Put my name down if you'd like to rally a
> petition, Franco!
Mine too.
> Oh, one more thing, give it an
> unbreakable screen cable ;-)
Ah, yes...
> let's get back to the friendly and helpful advice that
> makes this Digest stand head and shoulders above
> all competitors and stop this incessant arguing -
> I'm beginning to get bored with it now :-(
Me too.
Owen
Thought for the day:
After all is said and done, usually more is said than done.
--
Owen H. Morgan, Yacht "Naomi J.", LD-53°20.87'N 6°14.83'W
Dublin City Moorings
http://home.no.net/naomij
Phone and SMS:
In Ireland: +353 (0)87 7474173
In Norway: +47 92053097
*++++++++++&
************************************************************************
Website : http://www.psioneering.co.uk
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