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Epoc Digest Tue, 29 Jul 2003 Volume 01 : Number 308
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Sent to: 794 subscribers
In today's Epoc Digest 12 messages:
==============================
- Nokia 3650
- RE: Blueberry
- (was: Revo Form-Factor Successor [OT])
- Re: Compatibility of Mobile-Camera and Psion?
- Re. Blueberry
- Sony v. Sharp, 1GB CF-Card, Help!,
- Re: Revo Form-Factor Successor...
- 1GB CF-Card
- Re: nB petition & *.CERE: (EPOC DIGEST V1 # 307 (14))
- Re:CLASSES.ZIP in ROM
- Re: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 307 (8): Revo Battery Replacment/Sharp andPalm Clamshells :Compatibility of Mobile-Camera and Psion? :Future of SymbianOS, Blueberry, Little rant Psion going WinCE,Zaurus SL-C700
- Zaurus C700 series
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Date: 28 Jul 2003 20:42:45 +0100
From: Martin Yirrell
Subject: Nokia 3650
Hi all
Has anyone any experience of the Nokia 3650? My son recently acquired one and is now on his third 'phone (in two weeks)! The previous two ended up with the message "Phone startup failed, contact retailer" when switched on and even a reset did nothing. The killer action seems to have been removing the battery when the phone froze during a download.
Martin Yirrell
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Date: 28 Jul 2003 21:29:59 +0100
From: Martin Guthrie
Subject: RE: Blueberry
Hi Itamar,
> Re. Blueberry - Today I read an article in the Times in the UK > that in the city (of London) this machine gained tremendously in > popularity as it can synchronise with the email systems of larger > Companies. Apparently in meetings people now are asked to switch > off their machines as many were reading their emails during
> meetings. In 2002 abt. 7,000 were sold and in 2003 sofar already > over 30,000 (if I remember these figures correctly). Still, I
> don't understand how people can work with these small keys.
That would be BlackBerry Itamar... ;¬)
Best regards,
Martin Guthrie
—————————
www.pscience5.net
www.freepoc.org
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Date: 28 Jul 2003 22:37:04 +0100
From: koihin
Subject: (was: Revo Form-Factor Successor [OT])
Reply to: Jaan Sass
Dear Jan,
glad to hear you are loving your 7! I got myself a MnetBook early this year and it is by far my wisest investment I can think of in recent memory! You are right of course, the 7/netBook is a worthy successor to current Revo/5MX users looking to get a new machine.
I too love the Cadfael series, will spy the Net and see what I can come up with. Mobipocket is also one of my permanent apps on my netBook.
the netBook is my 'away' machine, when I am travelling, which is alot. At home I have a PC running Win2K and an 17" LCD monitor at 1280 x 1024; splendid way to serve the Net. The Opera browser on the PC is a joy to use by the way.
warm regards,
Koi Hin
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Date: 28 Jul 2003 22:37:05 +0100
From: koihin
Subject: Re: Compatibility of Mobile-Camera and Psion?
Reply to: guillaume.favre
Dear Guilliame,
I current own the Sony Ericsson T610 and previously owned the Sony Ericsson T68i with Communicam MCA-20. i am happy to say that you should have no problems sending pictures via IR from either of the above phones to most devices, which includes the MnetBook and Revo. I assume it works for other ER5 devices too. The only caveat is you must install PLBeam on your ER5 machine. I have successfully send pics before through Mail on my netBook to friends both on GPRS and HSCSD, incidentally through the very same phone the pic was taken from!
You may however be interested in knowing the quality of the T610 camera leaves much to be desired. The older Sony Ericsson T68i with the MCA-20 attachement gave much better results. 2 new phones on the horizon might peak your interest if you are willing to wait: the Nokia 6600 and the Siemens SX1, both are series 60 phones with a series of very delicious features including built-in camera.
warm regards,
Koi Hin
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Date: 28 Jul 2003 22:37:07 +0100
From: koihin
Subject: Re. Blueberry
Reply to Itamar Engelsman
Dear Itamar,
do you perhaps mean the Blackberry rather than Blueberry, or is it another product? I had a chance to try one out when a business associate came from the USA to Asia. I believe the reason for its success is that is does what it does very well, which is get your regular mail sent to you, over the mobile networks, and you can reply through it. When I explain to the Yank I could pretty much do the same with my mobile phone (except for the typing speed, my T9 input skill is not quite up there with my 13-year old niece), he was incredulous.
warm regards,
Koi Hin
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Date: 29 Jul 2003 00:05:00 +0100
From: Itamar Engelsman
Subject: Sony v. Sharp, 1GB CF-Card, Help!,
Answer to: Jim Cooke
Re.: Sony v. Sharp - Is screen size and keyboard size not a function as well ? After moving from the 5MX to the S7 I learned that size is nxot everything if you want a machine for decent and considerable typing work, emailing but with PDA functionality.
Answer to: Roman Frotz
Re. 1GB CF-Card - I am not sure what your problem is, but I just checked my 1 Gb card I use in my Nikon D100. I put it in my 5MX and it recognised it instantly without any preparation or formatting.
Answer to: Terry Gordon
Re. Help! - It sounds to me like an offending program. Do a soft reset and open one program after the other until it starts again and you'll know which one it is. If that fails, you might have no choice but to do a hard reset, but you might recreate the problem with installing again.
Best regards,
Itamar Engelsman
London, UK
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Date: 29 Jul 2003 00:12:10 +0100
From: Mike Fellhauer
Subject: Re: Revo Form-Factor Successor...
From: Jaan Sass Subject: Revo Form-Factor Successor
>
>I still think the Psion7/Netbook is a worthy successor to Revo/Psion 5mx.
The reason many of us chose the Revo (even with its shortcommings) is its smaller size and lighter weight...for me the 5mx was too big, bulky, clumsy, and heavy (the 5mx is almost TWICE the weight as the Revo). So if a 5mx is too big to lug around, the 7/nB platform is definately out of the question!
I did look at Dana for a while because it would be great for typing outside, but again too big for carrying around. Instead I bought a 3xe and a folding keyboard, and now I use the Palm more than the Revo.
But last week when I saw the mention of the Sony Clie Peg-UX50 mentioned here as a Revo successor I had to have a look, and that was the machine I will be buying in future (it's about the same size as the Revo (more square though) and it's even LIGHTER). Sure it would be perfect if it ran the Symbian OS (actually, it's been rumoured that OS5 was the PalmOS with the Symbian kernel) but what's the use of a Symbian OS machine if it's too big
to use.
People here are probably wondering why I don't get the Nokia 9290 (US 9210) or the Sony P800...well, the 9290 only works in major cities in Canada, and the Sony is only stylus based (yes the Palm 3xe is stylus based but I also have the keyboard for it). And anyway, I have no use for a cellphone (only used one twice in my life) so why pay for radiation I won't be using...and
it would be a waste of money if I could disable it.
Mike
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Jul 2003 00:33:46 +0100
From: Darryl Kempster
Subject: 1GB CF-Card
Roman Frotz wrote:-
<<I just bought a 1GB CF-Card from Sandisk via Ebay for use in my 5MX Pro. But so far I only got the message "disk not present" after I put them into the CF slot. >>
I have just taken delivery of a 1GB CF by PQI. This is a x40 speed card and is recognised ok by both my netBook and my MC218. The only thing I can suggest is are you sure you are putting it in the right way round? There is usually a ridge on one edge of the card which you use to remove the card from the Psion. This obviously has to face 'out' so you can use your fingernail against it.
Hope this helps
Darryl
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Date: 29 Jul 2003 01:01:25 +0100
From: David Steer \(Plus\)
Subject: Re: nB petition & *.CERE: (EPOC DIGEST V1 # 307 (14))
Dear Rolf,
Again wise words. I have signed the petition and understand why you have not. My reason for signing is the vague hope that, as with the NetPad, PT will consider an EPOC based version as well as the WinCE.net version. As a business user of NetPads I understand the need for a WinCe version - there is vastly more support for that OS then for EPOC. However, the functionality out of the box of a NetPad running WinCe is far short of private requirements - where as the EPOC version is not. I like many users that read this digest take our PDAs a little bit further than the average user and EPOC supplies that need. Also, now Palm have release OS version 5 they are a viable alternative. What we want to be able to do is continue to show our support for Psion by spending our hard earned cash on an EPOC version - that is our investment into the Company. WinCe.net may well have had to be tweaked to run on the Netbook Pro's hardware - the cost of that is bourn out in the price of the device. All we ask PT is that if, based on a few 1000 sales, is it viable for them to offer an alternative? There are many Netpad users out there running EPOC and they might be interested in being able to run the same software on a laptop format device. I am realistic about this and am prepared to squeeze as much life out of my Series 7 as I can and even get a new Netbook I. However, a NetBook Pro would be a bit better and may even make PT a little more money!
Regards
David Steer
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Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:23:40 +0100
From: Marcus von Cube
Subject: Re:CLASSES.ZIP in ROM
Guillaume,
>For exemple, there is a ca. 600 kB file of zipped Java Classes. Do you really think that a zip file is useful in a ROM?
Yes it is! Java comes with a bunch of small files of type *.class that make up the basic library (Not only the graphics stuff, almost everything in Java is implemented as a class!). Many of
these files are rather small, smaller then the typical allocation unit of a file system. Since a single file always occupies at least a complete allocation unit, even if it is much smaller, this would be a huge waste of storage space.
Other languages have something like a library format, a way of collecting several small (object) files into one or more bigger files from where the relevant parts are extracted during compile/bind or runtime. The Java designers simply decided not to invent there own format but use a well
known archive file format instead: ZIP. The added benefit is (optional) compression which helps
to make the file even smaller.
When a Java programm (typically itself packaged as a JAR file which is a ZIP file with some
added info in it) starts, all the neccessary class files are searched in a hirarchy of ZIP and/or JAR files and/or directories. The CLASSPATH decides where to look for these files and
directories. Thus Java programs tend to be relatively small packages with only a few files (probably only a single JAR). On the other hand, running such an application can be quite
memory expensive, because of the tons of classes being loaded at runtime from the various libraries.
I must admit that this is not the complete story. In order to gain speed and to access system
level resources (like the screen or the file system), a bunch of native (compiled C/C++) code is neccessary. The Java virtual machine itself is of course a native program. On EPOC, some of
the base classes which are used by every application (Object, String, ...) are remove from CLASSES.ZIP and directly included in the relevant DLLs. This saves some resources but makes
the Java DLLs a little larger.
Can we get rid of something in ROM?
Yes and No! The problem is that files in ROM on EPOC machines a sligthly different from their counterparts in RAM. The ROM builder application (which is only available for manufacturers, it's
not in the standard SDK) performs some special relocation work on many file types. If you copy
a file from Z to C and try to use it (e. g. an application, image or a sound) it will not work correctly! So the only way to remove something from ROM or to replace it with something more appropriate is to get hold of the ROM builder application and create a new ROM image which can
be read in by the system (5mx Pro, nB) during boot. Anybody out there with the tools and
knowledge to do it?
Marcus
http://www.mvcsys.de
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Jul 2003 07:35:36 +0100
From: Arent Kits van Heijningen
Subject: Re: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 307 (8): Revo Battery Replacment/Sharp andPalm Clamshells :Compatibility of Mobile-Camera and Psion? :Future of SymbianOS, Blueberry, Little rant Psion going WinCE,Zaurus SL-C700
EPOC DIGEST V1 # 307 (8): Revo Battery Replacment/Sharp and Palm Clamshells :Compatibility of Mobile-Camera and Psion? : Future of SymbianOS, Blueberry, Little rant Psion going WinCE, Zaurus SL-C700
On : 28 Jul 2003 12:06:04 +0100 ,
Itamar Engelsman wrote :
Future of SymbianOS, Blueberry, Little rant Psion going WinCE, Zaurus SL-C700
>>
Re.: Future of SymbianOS - Thanks for a long and interesting explanation. I
don't think Arents will have anything personal to gain from WinCE increasing
it's share or not. You clearly differ from opinion and outlook and your
message was based on good arguments (IMHO). I think however that
unfortunately we did see the end of the EPOC (Symbian) OS as a front for
palmtops or smart phones, maybe but for Nokia although they did not bring out
their successor to the 9210 either.<<
Rolfs contribution was in many respects solid , but again colored by his
dislike for "Crap Edition "
Also it was clearly written before the news that Moto is going with the beast
broke on the mainstream English-language sites
This afternoon ( 28-07) I was on the phone with a guy , who confirmed that
the ILEC's , such as KPN , T-Mobile and co will begin to phase out Symbian
phones capable of running native apps beginning early 2005
The pattern will probably be the same as for CompuServe Classic , both phones
and services will be available for a considerable time , but people will have
to pony up ( no handset subsidies and no free minutes/megabytes ) and many
services no longer accessible
The successor to the 9210/9290 is the 6800 ( no native UI/API , no build-in
Bluetooth )
Probably Nokia's last Symbian phone with native UI/API will be the 6600 , to
be released Q3 in Scandinavia and Q4 elsewhere
>>And it is interesting to note that apparently the new netBook will run
windowsCE as well without (as far as we know now) a possibillity to switch to
EPOC (Symbian) OS. <<
The problem is , there is no support for the touch screen and alpha section
of the keyboard and apps will run in a small ( 176 by 208 sized ) window on
the Netbook's screen
Apps need to be rewritten completely to take full advantage of the netbook's
features , with the attendant problems with respect to stability and
performance ( situation comparable to Alphasmart Dana and Palm apps )
>>Re. Little rant aboutPsion going WinCE - You forgot to mention that the
opinio of the author is that WinCE is nothing more but an in between stage
and that the future lies in Linux. <<
Whether it is based on Windows or Linux , Crap Edition remains Crap Edition
and yours as well as many others opinion that a cut-down version of 'doze or
*nix does not cut the mustard for long-standing users of classic pda's is in
my opinion correct
The issue here that convenience and cost-cutting ( you have already 'doze or
*nix on your desktop or notebook isn't it ?) rather than a quest for improved
quality and user-friendliness is the driving force here
That I went with HP was that at the time it offered colour , decent battery
life and a fully-supported PCMCIA slot
I did the discovery myself that WindowsCE supported an object-oriented
filesystem ( my \Windows directory is a knock-off of the Epoc \System\Apps
directory courtesy of some small registry tweaks and manually moving files
from ram to the CF card )
On 27 Jul 2003 23:53:54 +0100
guillaume.favre wrote about :
Compatibility of Mobile-Camera and Psion?
>>Has any of you succeeded in sending on IR a picture taken with one of these
new Camera-Mobile-Hifi-MP3 toys? Has anyone experience with the T610 from
Ericsson?<<
Nope , no direct xfer between the 610 and your Psion , you have to use a PC
and Windows for that
If you are really serious about inter-device file exchanges , do yourself a
favor and get an inexpensive laptop
On 28 Jul 2003 00:16:52 +0100
Jim Cooke wrote about
Revo Battery Replacment/Sharp and Palm Clamshells
>>I would look at the Sony UX-50 before I bought a Sharp C700. You can see
some pictures and data at
http://www.pdaavenue.com/forum/showthread.php?&threadid=2510 . The Sony has
wi-fi and bluetooth built in, is smaller than the Sharp, and offers much
better battery life. The estimated release date in the US is September. The
keyboard appears to be at least as good as the Sharp and the overall
dimensions are smaller. I haven't seen a release date for Europe yet. The
advantage of the Sony over the Sharp is that it will be fully localized in
English when it's released.<<
The Sony units will be available in Europe through third-party resellers ,
like Expansys and Clove , not through Sony's European network
The product cycles are too short now for a separate European release
Expect US prices + VAT+local taxes/duties werever appropiate
The third-party reseller route would work much better here than for the Sharp
units as the units for the US markets have an English-language UI out of the
box
The Sharp units are now available in the UK through shirtpocket.co.uk
k
*++++++++++&
Date: 29 Jul 2003 08:47:00 +0100
From: Mike Woodward
Subject: Zaurus C700 series
Thought that the Digest would be interested in some comparisons as I have been
a Psion user since the Psion 3a & still use my Netbook, and have had a Zaurus
C760 for a couple of weeks.
Very compact size although quite thick at 1 inch & heavy, which implies that
it should last a bit longer than a Psion.
Zaurus screen is brilliant, better than any other PDA or portable, pictures
look great.
Keyboard is very poor membrane type rather like a Sinclair Spectrum but with
raised keys, also can be confusing to remember the key combinations for little
used characters. Have come unstuck quite a few times when I hit the wrong key,
'OK', 'Cancel' & 'space bar' keys are right next to each other!
Screen can be rotated so it works as a standard PDA.
Built in applications are quite good, helped by a much better screen, Sheet
supports multiple sheets within a book. You can only open 1 document at a
time, so having an Agenda & the minutes from a previous meeting is not
possible.
Word & Excel files do not require conversion which can be a boon, however need
to allow for the much larger file sizes when calculating the storage
requirements, if you usually store 250 MB on your Psion you will probably need
2.5 GB on the Zaurus.
Very little software available for the C700 series, most Zaurus 5500/5600
software will work but the display is in portrait mode.
PC links are very good, works at USB speed & the Zaurus storage space appears
as disk drives on your PC, so you can use Windows Explorer to copy & move
files.
Intellisync works well with Outlook including links to back-end e-mail servers
such as Exchange & Sun One, does not work very well with GroupWise back-end.
Intellisync does include location when syncing diaries.
Backup software only backs up internal memory to a storage card with no
incremental backup options, this can then be copied to your PC over the USB
link.
My unit was supplied ready converted to English I have trashed the operating
system once but it was quite easy to get it restored.
Struggling to get ISP link working via my Nokia mobile using the same settings
as the Psion, don't think its a Zaurus problem as it connects but fails ISP
authentication.
Hope this helps those that are considering an alternative to the Psion.
Mike Woodward
*++++++++++&
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