Epocdigest V1 # 309

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Epoc Digest Thu, 31 Jul 2003 Volume 01 : Number 309

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Sent to: 792 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 10 messages:

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- Berries et al

- no subject

- The future of Symbian OS

- Future of Symbian - further replies to Arent

- 5mx Pro and 1gb card

- PCCard Modem

- Re: Compatibility of Mobile-Camera and Psion

- Charge Link

- netBook connection to Earthlink

- Geek Trivia

*++++++++++&

Date: 29 Jul 2003 21:54:16 +0100

From: Keith Giles

Subject: Berries et al

Martin Guthrie wrote:

> That would be BlackBerry Itamar... ;¬)

Koi Hin wrote:

> do you perhaps mean the Blackberry rather than Blueberry

Are you all giving him the Razzberry? :-)

Itamar Engelsman wrote:

> I learned that size is nxot everything

I've always hoped that was true. :-)

Sorry, folks, I just couldn't resist.

Happy Cycling,

Keith

Sunnyvale, CA

http://ohsix827.home.comcast.net

Thought For The Day: Bills travel through the mail at twice the speed of checks.

All my outgoing e-mails have been checked by Norton Anti-virus.

*++++++++++&

Date: 29 Jul 2003 23:07:57 +0100

From: Jan R Gustafsson

Subject: no subject

On 27 Jul 2003 23:53:54 +0100

guillaume.favre wrote on

Compatibility of Mobile-Camera and Psion?

<<<

Hi,

Has any of you succeeded in sending on IR a picture taken with one of these new Camera-Mobile-Hifi-MP3 toys? Has anyone experience with the T610 from Ericsson?

It would be nice to send these pictures with the GPRS feature of a Psion, which is certainly cheaper than MMS and more convenient in usability. I'm the kind of guy that can type a SMS on a phone...

No problem beaming pictures from a T610 to a Psion as long as you have PlBeam installed on the Psion. I have done it with my MC218.

But why send e-mails that way when you can do it by GPRS directly from the T610!?

Jan G

Stockholm, Sweden

*++++++++++&

Date: 29 Jul 2003 23:49:27 +0100

From: martin

Subject: The future of Symbian OS

>>Are you saying that in Symbian 7 Data has evolved?

Because I can't see any way that Data in Epoc R5 could be considered a RDBMS! It has no relational features that I can see.<<<

Sorry if I was unclear, I was referring to the database engine, not the Data application itself.

>>>I had based my message on the developments now going on with Intel , MicroSoft and the ILECS cosying up to each other and going to strike direct deals with the actual device manufacturers , bypassing the handset vendors in the process <<<

As the saying goes, you're "catching mosquitoes and selling camels". Symbian is not even strong in the ILECS market now, and ILECS influence on the international markets are minimal. Furthermore, Microsoft made a big deal out of the previous "cosying up" with Orange and look what happened; Orange has publicly stated repeatedly that they are completely OS agnostic and are now working with Symbian and others in similar manner.

Instead you choose to ignore Symbian's tie up with AOL...

>>>Nokia is moving Symbian down the scale , but only selected high-end models will have an exposed native API/UI , all the rest will be Java/proprietary only <<<

Not true at all. Every Nokia Symbian phone to date is open. There has not been a single closed Nokia Symbian phone released to date.

>>>Both Ericsson and Motorola will offer *.CE-based phones in paralell with

their Symbian offerings or some time to come staring resp first and second quarter of 2004 resp<<<

As for Ericsson, the simple answer is NO. As for Motorola, there have been persistent rumours about a Windows phone, but to date nothing tangible. On the contrary, there is the A920 Symbian OS / UIQ phone scheduled for release by end of this year.

>>>That symbian-based phones are such huge sellers says nothing about future developments as most of these sales are heavily subsidized by the carriers<<<

Your assertion is baseless. There are no more subsidies of Symbian phones than any other phone. For instance, Fujitsu's two Symbian OS FOMA/DoCoMo phones are under exactly the same promotion as other iMode phones. On the contrary, carrier promoted phones tend to have more subsidies than open phones for quite obvious reasons.

>>>When the ILEC's start to offer *.CE-based phones and associated services in earnest and start to drop support for the symbian models , then sales of the latter will drop precipitously<<<

What do you mean ILECS drop support for Symbian models? ILECS has never had any particular support for Symbian models before so there is no such support to "drop". And even if so, I do not think ILECS would have anywhere near the impact you allude to. With reference to what Rolf said earlier, I think if ILECS lock themselves in on phones which users do not want, the ILECS carriers are more likely to get dropped, not Symbian.

>>> I expect however , that Symbian phones are good for at least another 12-18 months of sale and that -unlike Psion- they will even remain available long after Microsoft has established a dominance in the sector <<<

There are not indications whatsoever to support your allusion. Microsoft might remain successful in the PDA sector and vehicle computing sector, but as far as smartphone goes, all indications are that Symbian will remain dominant. In contrast, there are currently no indications at all that Microsoft will reach any sort of dominance in this market.

>>>Combining Java and CE.NET in one handset is attractive because they can offer the same models to the ILEC's and the business markets as well as the CLEC's and the consumer/entertainment markets

Combined , these two environments will render native UI's/API's superfluous<<<

1. Symbian OS already has better support for Java than CE.net. In fact CE.net does not even come with JVM as standard.

2. There isn't any sort of logic in your claim that Java+OS will remove the need for UIs and APIs. So you are meaning to say that just because you bring in Java you will not have any User Interface and no Programming Interface. So what APIs is Java going to use then?

3. If a Java phone is what you want, why bother with an open OS in the first place? There are already Java-phones, BREW-phones and the like available at the lower end. What you are talking about are feature phones, not smartphones.

>>>It is exactly that , to bring down complexity and cost for the device manufacturers , many new Symbian phones only use the kernel and the wireless stack , running a JVM and or *.CE/PalmOS resp. the proprietary software on top of that<<<

Nonsense. Check your statements better.

>>>Both Palm and *.CE is now approaching or even surpassing non-embedded Symbian in terms of functionality<<<

That is simply not true. Also check your definition of 'embedded'. If any of those three OSs have been embedded from the outset it is Symbian. Both the current Palm (v5 and onwards) and Windows CE have non-embedded heritage. Symbian on the other hand was designed to be embedded from the outset.

>>>and recent Java implementations have performace comparable to native applications while at the same time being completely compatible with both the Sun and Microsoft implementations <<<

Let us get this right. You are claiming that a Java application has comparable performance to a C++ application. No, not even with a JVM hardware accelerator you will obtain that.

>>> the *.CE versions based on Linux and NetBSD

have similar stability and usability issues as the MicroSoft offering <<<

With a smile I take note that you now claim that CE is based on Linux!

cheers

Martin

*++++++++++&

Date: 30 Jul 2003 03:14:51 +0100

From: martin

Subject: Future of Symbian - further replies to Arent

Reply to: Arent Kits van Heijningen

>>>This afternoon ( 28-07) I was on the phone with a guy , who confirmed that the ILEC's , such as KPN , T-Mobile and co will begin to phase out Symbian phones capable of running native apps beginning early 2005 <<<

Again, how can they phase out something which they do not have? Symbian's relatively small penetration of the US market has been entirely *consumer driven*, not operator driven.

>>>The successor to the 9210/9290 is the 6800 ( no native UI/API , no build-in Bluetooth ) <<<

That is not true at all on several accounts. First it is the 6800 that has a native UI/API while the Nokia 9210/9290 has an the open Symbian OS/Series 80 with support for both Java, MobileVB and OPL. Second, Nokia has announced on the Nokia forum in June that a successor to the 9200 series is in the making.

>>>Probably Nokia's last Symbian phone with native UI/API will be the 6600 , to be released Q3 in Scandinavia and Q4 elsewhere <<<

Baseless and does not make any sense whatsoever.

>>And it is interesting to note that apparently the new netBook will run

windowsCE as well without (as far as we know now) a possibillity to switch to

EPOC (Symbian) OS. <<

Teklogix were on Win CE long before they were acquired by Psion. The point is not whether they will *switch to* Symbian OS, but rather whether there is sufficient demand to offer a Symbian OS version *as well*. Many people believe there is.

Incidentally, the new netBook Pro appears to be designed with the same chipset as was used for the development and verification platform (Intel's Lubbock) of Symbian OS 7.0.

>>The problem is , there is no support for the touch screen and alpha section

of the keyboard and apps will run in a small ( 176 by 208 sized ) window on

the Netbook's screen <<

Sony Ericsson P800 has touchscreen. Nokia 9210 has keyboard. The netBook classic has both. They all run Symbian OS, and they all have different screen sizes. What is *your* problem?

>>Apps need to be rewritten completely to take full advantage of the netbook's features , with the attendant problems with respect to stability and performance <<

I think you need to read yourself up on Symbian. You are making all sorts of negative remarks without checking the facts. The features of netBook Pro are already supported by Symbian OS. There would be no need for complete rewriting of anything.

kind regards

Martin Harnevie

Malaysia - Sweden

*++++++++++&

Date: 30 Jul 2003 08:11:52 +0100

From: Philip Carlisle

Subject: 5mx Pro and 1gb card

To: Roman and Itamar

Your machines must differ from my standard 5mx, as the IBM 1gb card is too large for that machine's slot. I find it only fits comfortably into my NBook - or do you guys have some form of adaptor?

Regards

Philip Carlisle

London

*++++++++++&

Date: 30 Jul 2003 08:37:50 +0100

From: Adam Carter

Subject: PCCard Modem

I have a Psion DACOM 56k + Fax Gold Card Global that I bought of e-bay. Unfortunately I can not get it to work with my S7. Can someone please help me with the modem settings. I live in Australia (if that makes a difference to the settings ?I do not know?). I have followed all the help screens on my S7, ie tested in Comms Program 'at' returned with'ok'.

I need help mainly with the 'initialisation' & 'advanced' tabs on the modem settings.

Any help is apreciated.

Regards

Adam

*++++++++++&

Date: 30 Jul 2003 08:43:55 +0100

From: koihin

Subject: Re: Compatibility of Mobile-Camera and Psion

Reply to: Arent Kits van Heijningen

Dear Arent,

I own the T610 and have no problems transferring images via IR to my Psion devices. You may wish to refer to my reply to Guillaume Favre on this matter.

kind regards,

Koi Hin

*++++++++++&

Date: 30 Jul 2003 13:48:31 +0100

From: Darryl Kempster

Subject: Charge Link

Managed to track down a Revo Charge Link for a tenner (www.fge-mobilephones.com) in an attempt to encourage me to use my Revo 8MB. Hoping to charge it from the Dacom Goldcard in my netBook. No technical specs with it and specifically designed for use with laptops rather than another Psion. As yet no joy so glad I didn't pay full whack for it. Instructions are to install Easy Switch which I downloaded from dacom, but am unable to detect modem with Chargelink attached. And when I open it first then plug the Revo in nothing happens that I can see to warrant having it open so suspect this is purely for the Windows version.

As to charging - the plug tip is larger than my travel charger and so may not be making full contact. Not right angled either. Nothing happens initially then the green charging light comes on after a while then intermittently goes out again. Have not managed to keep it lit up long enough to see if it actually charges the Revo or not, even with netBook on mains power. Battery info and ChaDis both show no external power but instructions do say this may happen as it is a low power device.

Wonder if any one else has tried this combination? Is the voltage from the netBook too low for it to work? It recommends running the laptop from the mains during charging but that may be because laptop batteries are shit! I vaguely recall some discussion on Revo power supplies ages ago and the tips being oversized or flawed in some way - does anyone recall if there was a modification to the power tip to make it fit better? Or is this just another case of psion not being interested in their own products?

Darryl

*++++++++++&

Date: 30 Jul 2003 14:37:22 +0100

From: "Tony Cabot"

Subject: netBook connection to Earthlink

Does anyone with a netBook use Earthlink as their ISP? I have recently changed my ISP to Earthlink and I am now having trouble connecting with my netBook. I have successfully connected to two other ISPs so I am wondering if there is anything special/different about Earthlink. The symptoms are that the attempt to connect "times out" after 30 seconds from the time the dial sequence (and the squealing) begins. When connecting using my PC it typically takes about 15-17 seconds before the sounds stop. Any help would be appreciated.

Tony Cabot

*++++++++++&

Date: 30 Jul 2003 21:01:11 +0100

From: Steve Hodgson

Subject: Geek Trivia

It's been a while since I posted and I was worried by what this might mean. Has nobody posted anything that annoyed me enough for a response? Am I falling out of love with my NetBook?

Some random ramblings therefore and one request.

1. Anyone had any experience of the Sharp Zaurus C7XX series of clamshells? Just took in a mini review at http://slashdot.org today (and also at http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/sharp-c700-review.html for an older review) and really liked the idea. The keyboard does look rather grim, even compared to say a Revo. There seem to be so few clamshell designs around now although the new Sony looks promising. I just can't think of a Palm as REAL computer though, undeniably fantastic as they are.

Just read the mini-review in today's Digest prior to sending this - thanks for that Mike. Where did you get the machine from and at what price?

2. The request is a favour. Does anyone have a spare retractable badge holder they could donate to me? I've just moved to an office that uses proximity sensors to activate doors and I am fed up with stooping to move around the building.

I've seen holders with a retractable lanyard but can't seem to find them to buy. Some pointers (off-digest please) as to where to look would be welcome. On the other hand if anyone does have a spare (ideally from some respected geek-tech company - Psion, Symbian, Sun etc) they could donate I would be your best mate!