Epocdigest V1 # 316

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tips for Posting to the Digest and how to unsubscribe

at the end of the Digest

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Epoc Digest Tue, 12 Aug 2003 Volume 01 : Number 316

************************************************************************

Sent to: 803 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 15 messages:

==============================

- Re: nB Ethernet - what can be done with it

- Netbook Pro

- iBook, Revo Battery Solution, Calendar 'not enough memory' error, Email Ireland

- Future of PDA's, T610 update,

- What I Want

- New Psion Magazine, New Psion Computer Society, I need you!

- Re: Answer to Rolf

- Mako Revo Battery Fix...NOT

- Cycling through documents (was: Remapping to Data)

- Free Software - Non-supported Shareware

- The use of Ethernet on the Netbook (2 Itamar)

- Disassembly pictures.

- Re: REAL alternatives to the Netbook?

- Re: Revo battery, was REAL alternatives to the Netbook?

- t

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 07:56:02 +0000

From: Marcus von Cube

Subject: Re: nB Ethernet - what can be done with it

Hi Itamar,

>Re. Ethernet - It is still not clear in my mind what the use is of an ethernet or wifi connection with the nBook.

On the lowest level, you get a TCP/IP connection to the rest of your computer network (for me, that's more than one machine!)

>If you connect what can you do on the Psion ?

That depends on the TCP/IP aware software on your nB and on your network (PC, Linux server,

...). Since my DSL link to the Internet is based on a machine on my network (actually an OS/2 system) I can access the Net from any of my machines, including the netBook as long as it is connected.

>Can you see the disk of the PC/Server ? Can you transfer files ?

Not the easy way because EPOC does not support the native Windows or Unix file sharing

protocols like SMB or NFS, but you can still use FTP to transfer files. nFTP is a client running on the nB and my main systems (exept the Win stuff) are running FTP servers that can be reached

from the netBook. There is even an FTP server (not very stable, must be restarted from time to time, but then works fine) running on EPOC. OS/2 (with the 3rd party NDFS software), Linux and Windows (with file managers) can all access the FTP server (almost) as a drive. Transfer is

quite fast (for EPOC) this way round.

>Can you run programs as a terminal ?

Hermes should be able (I didn't try) to control a console application on Linux and, to some

extend, on other platforms as well. For graphic access you'll need something like VNC (Virtual Network Console) which should be available for the nB, too (I didn't try that out).

In short: The nB is neither a PC nor a Unix syser. Thus you cannot expect that it has the same functionality and/or performance in networking. But a WiFi connection, backed by the proper infrastructure on your network, extends its usefulness considerably.

Marcus

http://www.mvcsys.de

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 11:49:58 +0000

From: George Cooke

Subject: Netbook Pro

Interesting reading over the last few months. Here are my opinions.

Whilst the opinions of some contributors have caused some irritation, I'd like to say that their 'devil's advocacy' is welcome. We need to be driven to either showing that there is a worthwhile community to consider developing for or not. The debate is healthy, and no less because it represents the very polarity of views that over recent years those involved with Psion have aired (and may well be still airing). I have been a dedicated Psion user since 1991 but to touch reality: I do feel that it is not enough just for a group of people to like an item. Otherwise we will just turn into the equivalent of a classic car club.

Sad though it is to envisage the demise of EPOC, we should really consider whether the new NetbookPro will satisfy the needs of users. Some might contest that USB is long overdue, bluetooth is overhyped etc. but it will be interesting to hear what users who get one think of the NetbookPro's software enviornment compared to EPOC. Will the connectivity software stick with purely MS compatibility or will Apple/ Linux allow more varied platform compatibility? I remember that it did not take me long to appreciate EPOC when I had a Philips Velo (Win CE), or even both a keyboarded and tablet HP Journada (WinCE & Pocket PC respectively).

But - These days, for the same price (or less), it is possible, as some digest members have been saying, to purchase a mid-sized notebook (Tablet PC/ IBook) on a platform which is still being developed for commercially. The added functionality, including total web access, multimedia and display output is enough for some people to overlook battery life, noise and instant-on characterisitcs of EPOC.

To me it is interesting that we are once again debating the merits of a true mini-computer rather than a smartphone. There is definitely a void in the market now - waiting to be filled by a keyboarded instant-on and functional device. Only time will tell if Teklogik have got their gameplan right. I also feel that other OSes have developed because they needed to - bug fixes and functionality needing development, and also because it is commercial necessity to 'force' users into upgrading. Since Psion left the payforourselves market, those of us who have grown to appreciate the stability of EPOC now are faced with an alien concept: upgrading. Many PocketPC/ Palm platform users have been far less loyal to their brand.

Psion, like Apple I guess, were at one time the manufacturer of both the hardware and software in a product. Now they have moved to separating the 2 elements - just as everyone except Apple are doing. Even MacOsX has the ability to run X11 and therefore a myriad of unix-based open source software.

Even though (as with the original Netbook) the NetbookPro is initially for the commercial market, then a little pressure through the petition might at least mean a cheaper, home-user version could be produced in future.

I am sure that the Open Source community would embrace EPOC if it were ever released into their care. One large consideration would be whether doing so would jeapardise Teklogic's future impact on the market.

In 2003, we are faced with other (previously desktop-tied) devices having caught up enough to become realisitcally portable , cheap and useful. I signed the petition because I really do appreciate how good EPOC is - the provision of the things I really need, rather than overblown features I will never get round to using is a boon. However, the fact that, basically EPOC Word is essentially no more functional than even its SIBO (Series3) version of 10 years ago says a lot. Opera and Web are not being developed any more, and more sites are demanding compliancy with IE6 levels of functionality, therefore EPOC users are slowly going to be faced with an increasing amount of frustration when surfing.

I do not consider myself as expert as many of the digest's contributors, but I appreciate the chance to be able to voice my feelings. It is testament to both the hardware and software we have grown to love over that last several years (let's face it - that's several generations in the ICT world) that people feel so strongly about the future.

My hopes for the future:

1) The Series 3 and 5 (ER3&5) will continue to be supported in some way for repairs

2) Developers will still recognise a usefulness in their tasks. So much has been achieved non-commercially for the platforms, the only reward many had was being appreciated by the Psion community.

3) The Psion hardware concept will live on, be successful and pave the way for even better PDA keyboarded devices.

4) EPOC will be released into the Open source arena.

Yes, it is sad that EPOC seems at peril but the hardware concept still lives on. I did sign the petition, but am also listening to Chris, Rolf, Martin and others who are fighting their respective corners - and making the rest of us question our hearts and minds. Whatever the outcome, for me, it is an honour to be able to share in the experience and knowledge you all have. Thankyou.

George Cooke - Chester, UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 13:05:59 +0000

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: iBook, Revo Battery Solution, Calendar 'not enough memory' error, Email Ireland

Answer to: Simon Wolf

Re.: iBook - But can you travel with it freely while it is in standbye mode or do you have to switch it off before traveling ?

Answer to: Edward J. Curtis

Re. Revo Battery Solution - You wrote "I normally let the Revo discharge to about 15% or so before I recharge it". That is great for someone who has the mains at hand whenever he gets to 15%. However, for people traveling this might be a big problem, needing to recharge it while still at 65% full before leaving for the airport for a flight of 7 hours to the USA for example. I think that is one of the main problems with the REVO (and why I never considered it together with the lack of a CF-card slot).

Answer to: Peter Burke

Re. Calendar 'not enough memory' error - Did you "compact" the file on a regular basis ? You might find that the actual file is considerably smaller if you did not. Otherwise my only suggestion is to split the file into several files with Tidy/Archive file from the main menu.

Answer to: Simon

Re. Email in Ireland - First of all Freeserve is a POP3 service and you can check your email using any ISP you like. I regularly use either GPRS or Compuserve and at home and work Eclipse ADSL line to check my Freeserve mail from different countries in Europe. To send email you have to use the SMTP server of the ISP you connect with. I don't remember whether I sent email via Freeserve from outside the UK or not, but you probably can use the program of Martin Guhrie that gives the SMTP authorisation ?

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

London, UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 13:06:00 +0000

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: Future of PDA's, T610 update,

Answer to: Rolf Brunsting

Re.: Future of PDA's - I wonder what these machines with wireless connection, GPRS, etc. are worth to me without a decent keyboard to work on. I think that if someone will bring out the functionality of a windows type machine (can just as well be Apple or Linux) that can run heavy programs like imaging editing, presentations, etc. with a crystal clear screen in the size of a netBook/S7 at a competitive price (in comparison to the notebooks) a lot of money could be made. I sitll think the average "mass-user" of PDA's use it as a diary / contacts / short notes machine and don't care about all the connectivity.

To All :

Re. T610 update - Just to warn UK Vodaphone users. I upgraded on Friday at a Vodaphone store and paid Gbp 110.- for the upgrade. Today (Monday) a letter came in from Vodaphone allowing me to upgrade my phone to a T610 ... for free !!! Of course I phoned customer service and I can get my money back by going to the store again with the letter so they say. If your Vodaphone contrac expires soon, be warned you can upgrade for free to this phone.

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

London, UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 15:47:48 +0000

From: Keith Giles

Subject: What I Want

There is a great deal of discussion about what people want - PDA, smartphone, wifi, EPOC, Symbian, etc., etc.

I think I'm a minority of 1 because all I want is a small machine with a usable keyboard, word processor, spreadsheet, database, cheap replaceable alkaline batteries - hey, I'm talking 5mx without all the other stuff. I'll take the other stuff, if necessary, but I never use it. I do all my e-mailing and internet activity via my PC at home. All my phone calls are made from home. When I'm away from home I don't worry about e-mails, the internet, and phones. I don't *think* I'm a Luddite. I just don't want to be eternally "connected".

Now I realize most of you are still working and "connectivity" is important to you - go for it, but don't let it dominate your life.

My Mako and MnetBook are nice toys, but they'll never really replace my 5mx. So it doesn't matter what Psion, Symbian, Nokia, Ericsson, Palm, HP, Fujitsu, Sharp, etc. have on the market or what they probably intend to have on the market, because they all fall flat on their face for what I want. They all do it their own wrong way.

I don't care how out-of-date ER5 is, it works. When my 5mx bites the dust, I'll move to my 5mxPro, and when that goes, I'll move back to my 5ive. When that goes......

I guess I've ranted enough - I'm a minority of 1. :-)

Happy Cycling,

Keith

Sunnyvale, CA

http://ohsix827.home.comcast.net

Thought For The Day: An optimist is someone who tells you to cheer up when things are going his way.

All my outgoing e-mails have been checked by Norton Anti-virus.

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 15:55:22 +0000

From: Will Green

Subject: New Psion Magazine, New Psion Computer Society, I need you!

Dear All,

***New Psion Magazine***

I hope you will forgive this shameless bit of advertising but I thought you might like to know about The Psion Computer Journal.

I, like a lot of people I'm sure, were very disappointed when Palmtop Magazine became Palmtop User and dropped about 90% of its Psion coverage.

I missed having a magazine to read in the pub, on the loo, or with a coffee.

So a couple of months a go, having some connections in the publishing business, I decided to publish my own, and I'm pleased now to go public and announce the new (and only) regular Psion publication 'The Psion Computer Journal'.

(By the way if you'd like to advertise in the new magazine its not too late to get into the Autumn edition, please email

It has a very similar content to the old Palmtop magazine, with reviews, news, tutorials, tips, and all the rest of it.

The main difference is there is only Psion coverage, Palmtop User Magazine already do a fantastic job covering Nokia, Sony Ericsson and all other Symbian devices.

The other difference is there will be sections on retro Psion (Org II etc, about 10%), SIBO (3 series, about 25%), as well as EPOC (65%).

Each edition will weigh in around 100 page mark, so its a good solid read, and will be published quarterly.

The first edition is due out in October and subscription is *special offer until Dec 03!* £14.50 for the year (£18.50 for members outside the UK to cover the extra postage).

If you visit www.psioncomputer.com it has a screen shot of the magazine, plus lots of other info and subscription details.

If you haven't got internet access emand I'll gladly email you the details.

(If some of you are wondering why I'm launching a new Psion magazine when some might say its had it day, I'll gladly tell you! I genuinely believe Psion computers are the best and most useful in the world. The amount of talent and hard work that has gone into and still is going into the software for the machines needs supporting. I don't give a monkeys that Psion seem to be moving away from their own platform, and if I only sell one copy I'll be a happy man!)

***New Psion Computer Society***

I thought it would make sense to launch a new society at the same time, so 'The Psion Computer Society' is born.

The idea is to provide an organising structure to allow Psion Users to get together occasionally , have a few beers, and talk Psion!

I will print and post regular society updates giving details of what's happening, with slips to be returned for booking a seat etc.

The first meeting I'm trying to organise for December in London. I thought a function room in a decent pub, bit of food, and a guest speaker.

Membership of the society is a massive £4.00, anything left out of this once printing and postage has been covered I thought could be used to buy the first round of drinks!

Visit www.psioncomputer.com/aboutsociety.htm for more details.

***I need you***

Now for the compliments!

The Epoc Digest has the largest pool of Psion experts going.

With this new magazine I already have 5 or 6 contributors, but I would love it if digest members would contribute to the content.

So I'm looking to commission articles on any area of Psion computing that you feel would be of interest to other readers.

I'm afraid as with any new venture initial remuneration would be small, a free copy of the magazine for every article published (this will get better with time I promise), plus of course the glory of your name in print!

One off articles or a series, either would be fantastic.

Please emwith any ideas.

Kind Regards,

Will Green.

Editor.

Psion Computer Journal & Society.

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 16:49:55 +0000

From: martin

Subject: Re: Answer to Rolf

>> Or, in other words, EPOC goes into handheld computers and Symbian OS in smartphones. The single exception to this rule is the Ericsson R380.<<

Not that I am against your naming definitions. If others agree in this forum to these suggested definitions, I am fine. I will use these from now on.

Just be aware - and I am probably saying this rather to other readers since I think that you are already aware of it - that in the Symbian documentation, e.g. functional descriptions, SDKs etc etc you frequently will see references to Symbian OS v5 for ER5, Symbian OS v5.1 for ER5u. Likewise, in the 9210 SDK, you will see numerous references to EPOC and ER6 etc. Even in the 9210i itself you will find references to EPOC. Just go to the image viewer and press image conversion and you will get an option 'Convert to EPOC Mbm file'. I think they cleaned it up much more in OS v7. Moreover, Psion Teklogix refer to the OS in netPad and netBook documentation as Symbian OS v5. So there are no hard and fast rules here, although I don't think I have seen Symbian OS v1.0 - v4.0 anywhere. Many people in Symbian colloquially use the ER6, ER6.1 and ER7 terms, perhaps simply because they are easier to say, but of course Symbian is well known for their large amount of confusing acronyms.

But again, with the scope of this forum in mind I am fine with your suggestion.

>>When you sign a petition you indicate that you agree with what the petition says. The exact wording of the petition is therefore important.<<

If every one would think like that we would have to create 10000 or more petitions for approximately the same purpose. And a country would have political parties in numbers close to their adult population.

I actually did not agree fully on all the points, but I still signed it because it goes in a general direction I agree with.

And it is a petition, you are not bound by it legally!!!

>>1) Do I want to see Symbian OS based handheld computers and the answer is : Yes.<<

Mine is also Yes.

>>2) Do I want to have a Symbian OS based netBook Pro and the answer is : No.<<

Mine is Yes, allowing for variations in name, brand etc and with full use of inherent features of Symbian OS v7.0/7.0s.

>>3) Do I see "Symbian OS devices where its more PDA type features are available" on the market and the answer is : Yes.<<

Mine is also Yes.

>>4) Do I foresee a "continued existence" of these "Symbian OS devices where its more PDA type features are available" and the answer is : Yes<<

Mine is also Yes.

>>5) Do I foresee a "continued existence" of these "Symbian OS devices where its more PDA type features are available" as the continuation of the Series 5mx and the answer is : No<<

Mine would also be No. That train has left the station. I agree with you fully that there would not be marketspace left for a 5mx type device, *although* it is the best typing machine for long haul flights you can think of with its replaceable standard batteries. A few years ago I "commuted" between Singapore and New York/Philly. Not even the netBook had stamina enough for that kind of flight.

And come to think of it. Another IMPORTANT issue with flying. Carriers do not any more allow flight mode (or PDA mode) on 9210s, P800s and the like. Here the netBook (as well as the 5mx) has its clear use.

>>6) Do I consider the Nokia 9210i a good replacement for a handheld computer like the Psion Series 5mx and the answer is : Both Yes and No.<<

Mine is also Yes and No. Depends on your usage. The 9210 is a wonderful SMS machine, a wonderful mobile teleconferencing phone, an OK spreadsheet machine, a good agenda and contacts machine, but not so good for typing Word or doing OPL or doing anything which requires a lot of typing.

>>7) Do I consider the SonyEricsson P800 a good replacement for a PDA like the Palm M515 and the answer is : Both Yes and No.<<

Mine is Yes. And what we don't have in P800 we will get in P810/900 or BenQP30 or Motorola A920 or whatever.

>> The way I see it is that the PDA (Palm M515) and handheld computer (Psion Series 5mx) will disappear, to be replaced by wirelessly connected devices. Via a wireless LAN (802.11 wireless ethernet) in the office or home and/or via a wireless mobile network (GSM, GPRS, EDGE, WCDMA) outside the office or home. I therefore don't see much of a future for a next generation 5mx with a colour screen, more memory, faster processor and Symbian OS 7 on board. I'd buy one when it came on the market tomorrow. However, what I'm actually waiting for is the successor to the Nokia 9210i - an existing Symbian OS based device - with GPRS wireless connectivity.<<

In fact me too, I'd like to use it - or a P800 - next to my large screen, nice keyboard netBook Pro Symbian OS v7.0 and transfer Sheet, Word, Data, Jotter, Contacts, Agenda, etc seamlessly between the two. I'd like to configure them so that the G: and H: drives on my netBook are in fact the C: and D: drives on my Nokia 93xx/P800 and vice verse. I would like to configure so that the Contacts.cbd file on both machines becomes identical as soon as they are within Bluetooth range. I would like to set up folders on both machines that are synchronised in a similar manner. And I would stop using PCs altogether, except perhaps for rare, very complex tasks in the office.

In addition the netBook Pro Symbian has full telephony functionality with multihoming, which is inherent in v7. I have fitted it with a GPRS/GSM card in the PC-card port and a WiFi card in the SDIO port. Together with my Sony Ericsson Bluetowoth headset, the netBook is now a fully online communicator. When I want something even more portable, I seamlessly let my Nokia 93xx or P800 or even a Series 60 phone take over.

Kind regards

Martin

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 17:17:59 +0000

From: Stephen Murgan

Subject: Mako Revo Battery Fix...NOT

Daniel,

Have you checked out this link?

http://www.millican.info/revobats.htm

Stephen

-----

If a train station is where the train stops, what is a work station?

*++++++++++&

Date: 10 Aug 2003 02:28:15 +0100

From: Daniel M Siegel

Subject: Mako Revo Battery Fix...NOT

Dear All -

My repaired battery pack charged to 100% using Kevin Millican's approach but lost charge and would not start sans mains after sitting unused or two days. Any suggestions appreciated.

Daniel Mark Siegel MD, MS (Management and Policy)

Phone 631-751- MOHS / 631-751-6647

Office Fax 631-751-6644 / 631-980-3893

PERSONAL FAX (in USA): 586 283 0510 via eFax

www.skincancer.dermdex.net

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 17:51:17 +0000

From: ian chapple

Subject: Cycling through documents (was: Remapping to Data)

Wolfgang Golder wrote:

>> Hi Astrid,

perhaps the following Macro can help you. It gets the "topmost" data document and sends it to background. Then it does the same but brings it to foreground. This way you can cycle through your open Data documents. If Data is not running it will be started.

... <<

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but repeatedly pressing a silkscreen button (Word, Sheet etc.) causes the application to cycle through the opened files. If the application is not open, it opens with the last file used, if it's open but not "on top", it is brought to the "top", if it's already "on top", it cycles through the opened files.

Cheers, Ian.

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 18:36:46 +0000

From: Andy Hayes

Subject: Free Software - Non-supported Shareware

Hi All

Is anyone keeping a list of EPOC shareware that has become freeware and/or shareware that it is no longer possible to register due to lack of support from the author?

Andy Hayes

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 21:46:53 +0000

From: Thomas F. Van der Zijden

Subject: The use of Ethernet on the Netbook (2 Itamar)

Hi group, Itamar,

I have only information from hear-say, but I am contemplating the purchase of a wifi-card for the following reasons:

- You can transfer your files to and fro using the FTP-client on the Psion (inbuilt) and an FTP-server on the PC (freeware servers can be found).

- In fact, you can do anything that we do now with Mocha PPP, but at a higher speed (I think that about 10Mbit/s can be reached with a Netbook compatible wifi card). That is much better than the slow transfer of files with the serial cable.

- I like the idea of having Internet on the Netbook while walking all around the house.

- It should be possible to log in onto a public WiFi spot and check your mail and surf the Net. More and more coffee shops and other meeting points use these points. My old University has one that covers the grass roof of the library! I see this as the greatest advantage for you, on your travels.

- Some of my friends (nerds find nerds <g>) have WiFi networks and I can just "beam in" and start transferring files. (In fact, he did not care to switch on the security measures yet, so any Psionist to the windmill in the centre of Woerden can check his mail! <grin>).

- To my knowledge you *cannot* have a programme on the Psion that "sees" the other members of the network as Windows can do this. The other members will "see" the Psion, but it cannot be accessed.

Again, I did not purchase the card yet, but someone here (David Lir?) has it working and it sounded really good!

Yours truly,

Thomas van der Zijden

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 21:48:37 +0000

From: Trygve Henriksen

Subject: Disassembly pictures.

Greetings!

robertsont asked:

> does anyone know where i can get pics online of a disassembled

> psion 7 machine!? Still trying to work out how to refit my disk drive!

I believe there are pictures on the Foxpop site

(www.foxpop.co.uk I believe?)

Reminds me that I REALLY need to get my own page with disassembly instructions and pictures posted...

:-)

Trygve

Another brick in the wall?

Try the Compaq Portable III, a 286/12MHz machine with Plasma screen, 640KB RAM, 1.2MB 5.25" floppy drive, 20MB HDD, 10Kg and NO BATTERIES!

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 23:00:02 +0000

From: Alan Morris

Subject: Re: REAL alternatives to the Netbook?

Simon Wolf wrote:-

<< Last Monday my new 12" iBook arrived and I have to say that I am delighted with it. .... No registry, .... Lovely. .... and Apple are very style conscious and most application look good and behave in a similar fashion, similar to the strong ER5 design guidelines in fact. >>

Simon, I've never liked Apple computers, probably because I was put off them when they only had CAPITAL letters without lower case and they were very, very expensive.

However from your comments, I would probably had done better to get what you have as a digital photography management system. That's what I bought an XP laptop to do, as Psions (5mx/7/nB/Revo) do everything else that I need.

Alan R Morris, G4ENS.

Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, UK.

Using a Psion & Nokia 6210e.

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Aug 2003 23:00:13 +0000

From: Alan Morris

Subject: Re: Revo battery, was REAL alternatives to the Netbook?

Simon Wolf wrote:-

<< I never really go on with Revos due to their charging problems (I want to be able to decide when to charge my PDA, not have it dictate that I can only charge it when the battery falls below a certain level and then only recharge it if the moon is full after a dry day). >>

I've never had any charging problems with my Revo+. ChaDis was installed when it was new and I charge at any discharge level. If the Revo drops to trickle charge too soon for my available time to recharge, I'll disconnect and reconnect at full charge.

Occasionally ChaDis will beep an overcharge warning, when I immediately disconnect. If I leave the room while on full charge, I disconnect as I won't be able to hear the beep.