Epocdigest V1 # 319

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Epoc Digest Fri, 15 Aug 2003 Volume 01 : Number 319

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Sent to: 803 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 15 messages:

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- Re: Cycling through documents, netbook

- IR Print Problems / Psion Journal

- Ethernet, software on Netbook Pro, crashing Palms, mail2web.be

- Re: NetBook Pro

- Die hard user number 2, Revo battery charging

- RE: Netbook Pro - EPOC DIGEST V1 # 318 (7)

- Re: Serial connector

- New Psion Magazine,

- Re: A Word Problem

- Re: Netbook Pro

- Re: Revo Battery Solution

- Re: Revo Form-Factor Successor...

- Re: The use of Ethernet on the Netbook

- Re: Psion replacement?

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Date: 14 Aug 2003 14:48:23 +0000

From: Ian Chapple

Subject: Re: Cycling through documents, netbook

Itamar,

>> Answer to: ian chapple

Re.: Cycling through documents - What you missed is that not all EPOC machines have a sil icon for the DATA application. <<

Oops, you're right, my mistake. Mind you, I hardly use the Data application, so I overlooked this...

Re. use of the netbook: I only bought a netbook because I wanted to use WiFi in combination with an ADSL connection, which works extremely well. Otherwise I would have stuck with my trusty P7, which is now sat in a drawer, looking sorry for itself.

Re. using an iBook as a netbook replacement: my wife has a new iBook, and very nice it is too. The standby time seems to be very good, and the battery life is certainly much improved from her old, bright orange iBook. Some applications (Email, Safari browser etc.) seem a tad reluctant to start straight from standby, which detracts a bit from the "instant-on" feel of it; any ideas fellow iBook users?

Cheers, Ian.

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Date: 14 Aug 2003 16:19:22 +0000

From: Andy Hayes

Subject: IR Print Problems / Psion Journal

Hi All

I thought that I had discovered the solution to the printing problem that I have been having, netBook --> Psion IR eye --> HP1300 laser. The battery that I bought a few weeks ago was flat :-( So I changed it for a new one. Still no joy, so off to HP tech support next to find out what the difference is. More news as it breaks!

Its brilliant to see news of the Psion Computer Journal arrive in the pages of the EPOC Digest. With all of the expertise that we have here it should be no problem filling it. It will be great if as many people as possible give their support, by buying and supporting it.

Andy Hayes

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Date: 14 Aug 2003 18:42:32 +0000

From: Thomas F. Van der Zijden

Subject: Ethernet, software on Netbook Pro, crashing Palms, mail2web.be

2 Itamar : indeed, Mocha PPP makes the same things possible as an Ethernet card, but I am still tempted by the fact, that Ethernet makes this *wireless* ! I guess, I am a bit geeky. ;-)

On the Netbook Pro: the software that comes with it is exactly the problem. As Rolf pointed out the Netbook Pro will most likely only contain the software that the client (= a big company) requested, so probably not an agenda, word processor, data, spreadsheet and the complete office packet the normal Win CE users get.

2 Peter Rand: I was interested on how you experienced crashes on your Palm.

Did the Belgians on this list already discover that there is a Belgian version of mail2web, the website that makes it possible to read your POP3 e-mail on the web, as discussed on this list? It can be found on www.mail2web.be . I did not yet test it on Psion compatibility. It looks rather simple, though.

I found this site when I wanted to read my Freesurf mail. The servers of my provider are messed up by the new Internet worm and I could not access the web page of Freesurf.

Yours truly,

Thomas VAN DER ZIJDEN

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Date: 14 Aug 2003 19:08:21 +0000

From: Gianluca Gallino

Subject: Re: NetBook Pro

Reply to Neil:

>I would be interested in seeing more about the unit but cannot find >anything on the Psion site. Do you know when the unit is going to >be released or where I can get further information from?

it seems that the machine was supposed to be kept under cover until the official launch, that is why you are not probably finding pieces of information on the psion teklogix site.

there is no official information about the launch period either, which seems to have been delayed more than once. According to some french rumors the beta tests have not been started, either.

I just *suppose* that PT will launch it in the last quarter of 2003, but please do not take it for granted.

In the meantime, the Symbian netBook pro petition campaign is going further and the number of signatures reached 1357 units this evening.

Please, all those wishing to have a Symbian version kindly do keep on spreading the word around, following the example of many Symbian/Epoc-related sites.

As to the petition promotion, in fact, I would like to emphasize the effort from the Symbian Benelux User Group and - in particular - the message personally written by Robert Harmsen, CEO at Symbian,info which has just been mentioned at pdastreet/psionplace:

http://www.pdastreet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=91209

cheers

Gianluca Gallino AKA Cangiante

(this mail was written on the email app on his netBook and sent via the cheapest mobile ISP thanks to SMTPauth java program)

NB: please keep on supporting the petition for an EPOC/Symbian new netBook PRO on www.petitiononline.com/nbookpro/petition.html

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Aug 2003 21:11:59 +0000

From: Kevin Thorne

Subject: Die hard user number 2, Revo battery charging

Keith wrote:

<I don't care how out-of-date ER5 is, it works. When my 5mx bites the dust, I'll move to my 5mxPro, and when that goes, I'll move back to my 5ive. When that goes......

I guess I've ranted enough - I'm a minority of 1. :-)>

DIE HARD USER

No, at least a minority of 4 now, by the other replies to this! I've looked at many machines in the past but none can give me the sheer simplicity combined with great functionality of ER5 on my S7. And if it works, why change? Stick with your EPOC device and enjoy it :-) I can't see myself ever giving up my S7. My only concern (and someone else recently mentioned this) is that surfing the Web will become gradually more frustrating as the Web and Opera apps become more and more dated. I don't want to end up using another computer just for browsing because every site seems to demand IE5 or higher. We haven't got to this stage just yet but I can see it happening somewhere down the line.

REVO BATTERY CHARGING

It seems a shame to me judging by all the postings on the subject of charging the Revo that Psion didn't take the route of equipping it with a user replaceable Li-ion cell, as on my 9210 Communicator. It has a very impressive life, I can charge it whenever I want at any stage of discharge, it can be left on charge for as long as I want, it's a 2 second job to replace it with a new unit should the need ever arise and it's extremely light. Indeed, we never seem to hear of any problems with the S7/netBook's rechargeable unit either. Although expensive to replace, the battery unit in my S7 is now 3½ years old and it's still going strong! But I'm thinking ahead and one day my S7's battery pack will undoubtedly need replacement so does anyone know the best source for a new one (and at what price?)

Regards

Kevin Thorne

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Aug 2003 22:31:44 +0000

From: David Steer $Plus$

Subject: RE: Netbook Pro - EPOC DIGEST V1 # 318 (7)

Reply to Neil,

Psion Teklogix are keeping the details of the new Netbook Pro close to their chest. A lucky few may get a look at the spec sheet but I doubt it. The machine was originally scheduled for an August release, however, I feel closer to late October is more realistic. Just guessing, the machine is likely to have up to 128meg ram, 32 meg rom and 400MHtz processor and a transflective screen with 4096 colours. Understand that this is just guessing, but I think we can expect the specs to be impressive.

David

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Aug 2003 23:25:50 +0000

From: Alan Morris

Subject: Re: Serial connector

Philip Carlisle wrote:-

<< I have purchased a Belkin serial to USB converter (c. GDP 58). It works well as a Psion to PC link for PsiWin purposes. It is powered from the USB port. I do not know whether this solution would work with your laptop, but I cannot see why it shouldn't. >>

I don't see why, but after many hours trying it wont work on a new XP Compaq laptop. There's nothing to interfer with it as it was the first thing I installed. But then It's Windows.

Alan R Morris, G4ENS.

Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, UK.

Using a Psion 7 & Nokia 6210e.

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Aug 2003 23:35:29 +0000

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: New Psion Magazine,

Answer to: Will Green

Re.: New Psion Magazine - I suppose you meant to write "accept" (to include) and not "except" (to exclude) <BG>

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

London, UK

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Date: 15 Aug 2003 00:00:07 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: A Word Problem

Dear Philip,

<< I used to use Word rarely. Now it sometimes saves a file but refuses to open it again saying it is "corrupt". I've deleted the .ini file on the C drive, I've defragged the CF card (where most of my files are) and I've run Check Disk but the problem remains. Sometimes, after copying the contents onto the clipboard, I have to paste the content into 3 separate files before one is saved with no apparent corruption >>

Deleting the Word.ini file won't work because it contains the preferences you've set as well as the name and location of the most recent Word file you've used. Defragmenting the CF card won't work either because this results in the file being relocated to a different section of the CF card. While the Check Disk tool verifies that the CF card's file allocation table matches the actual directory structure and the files within these directories as found on the card. In other words, none of the three actions you've performed have anything to do with the internals of the Word file itself. While it's the internals of the file which makes Word say "I do recognise this file as one of my own but there's something in it that ain't right".

Regarding the corruption, I always have a World file open which I use as a kind of scratchpad. I copy text into it from somewhere else, modify and rework the text and then cut the text out to place it somewhere else again. To give you an example, I'm subscribed to the press service of a number of manufacturers and get their press releases by e-mail. I copy the complete press release from Email into Word, edit it by deleting such things as standard disclaimers, and paste the edited press release into a Data file in which I collect them.

Thing is, that I can't do this indefinitely. There comes a time that pasting text into the open Word file triggers a "Corrupted" error message. The only thing I can do at that point is to cut the text and paste it into the Symbian Editor, save the Editor file, close Word (thereby saving the Word file to disk) and to delete the file. What I then do is to create a new Word file, import the Editor text file and to continue where I left. Simply closing and opening the file again triggers the same "Corrupted" message. Creating a new Word file and pasting the text of the problem file into it doesn't work either as corrupted = corrupted.

I haven't investigated these corruptions because they don't really bother me. I can use a Word file as scratchpad for a long time before it happens and it only takes me two minutes to get going again.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 15 Aug 2003 00:00:18 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Netbook Pro

Dear George,

Thanks for an interesting message which supplied some additional food for thought.

<< Sad though it is to envisage the demise of EPOC, we should really consider whether the new NetbookPro will satisfy the needs of users >>

I'm sorry to say that this is the biggest question mark I have in my mind. I trust the main aim is to keep the general platform alive. By which I mean a device that's first and foremost a handheld computer in miniature laptop format, running one of EPOC's Symbian OS successors.

Now, the main difficulty I have with the netBook Pro is with its position in the market. The Revo (Plus), Series 5(mx) and MC218 very much outsold the old netBook and Series 7. And, as you say, the netBook Pro is in competition with entry level laptop PCs. Which makes me doubt whether the netBook Pro is the right vehicle. Looks to me that a revised and updated Series 5mx is a much better starting point. It appeals to a much larger audience and clearly distinguishes itself from laptop PCs and Apple's iBook.

Second aspect is the size of the market. Keeping the platform alive means that the device we're talking about now needs to be succeeded by a new one in (say) two years time. This requires that the device is sold in sufficient numbers throughout this period. Not only to pay for the development of the next generation but also to pay for all the other activities, like technical support, that need to go on. The initial market will be people like us - people who continue to use their Psions till terminal breakdown. A second group are those who (grumble, grumble) moved to other equipment but would have preferred to stay with Psion. My question is whether these two groups are large enough. What I foresee is that initial sales of the netBook Pro will be fine but will taper off after about six months. I expect that a revised Series 5mx will do better but that sales will decline after one year. We'll therefore need to attract people outside these groups in order to keep the platform alive. What's more, it's actually *these* people who will decide whether the platform lives. What *they* want to have is actually much more important than what we want to have.

We'll therefore have to break our own Psion moulds and to start thinking the unthinkable. When people buy high-end Sony Clié models for their integrated digital cameras we have to consider that such an integrated camera is must have. Even though our natural reaction is "Naaaahh, that's not important!". We'll have to consider that a cable connection means USB 2.0, not RS232C and not even both - it's USB 2.0, period. We'll have to think about such multimedia features as playing MP3 music in full stereo and watching MPEG or AVI video clips as standard features. They may not appeal to us but are needed to get other people on board. The current set of standard applications also needs to be investigated, As you say, George, Word hasn't changed much since Series 3 days except for object embedding. Sheet has remained a 2D spreadsheet. You can only use one keyphrase for searching in Data. We'll have to think about the feature set of these applications as well as data exchange with other platforms.

Having a good look at what's happening outside our own Psion sphere, at what other people are buying will give us a much better idea of what's needed to keep the platform alive. I'm afraid the conclusion will be that a Symbian OS based netBook Pro isn't the solution at all.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 15 Aug 2003 00:00:30 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Revo Battery Solution

Dear Itamar,

<< You wrote "I normally let the Revo discharge to about 15% or so before I recharge it". That is great for someone who has the mains at hand whenever he gets to 15%. However, for people traveling this might be a big problem, needing to recharge it while still at 65% full before leaving for the airport for a flight of 7 hours to the USA for example. I think that is one of the main problems with the REVO (and why I never considered it together with the lack of a CF-card slot). >>

Your purchase of a Series 7 contradicts the above as it also has a rechargeable battery. When your Series 7's battery is down to the equivalent of a 15% charge you'll need to have the charger with you and a mains socket nearby. Otherwise it's quickly a case of 'over and out'. You also need to have your Series 7 fully charged when you want to use it on a 7-hour flight. And you won't be able to make that many phone calls when the rechargeable battery of your brand new SonyEricsson T610 is down to 15%.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 15 Aug 2003 00:00:58 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Revo Form-Factor Successor...

Dear Jaan,

<< I looked at the Dana but was not overly impressed. I understand it was developed for kids but see that they are trying market it for home adult use >>

It was actually developed for the educational market. This includes computer assisted learning as used in primary schools but also project and task work in secondary schools.

<< The Dana price tag new is $399 USD about what I paid for Psion 7 on ebay >>

That's the retail price. You can be sure that schools are able to buy them at lower prices because (a) whole classrooms are fitted out with them and (b) because of government support grants. I trust the price will be low enough to make it possible for each 'kid' to have his/her own Dana.

<< The current Dana as you pointed out only has 8meg ram my Psion 7 has 32meg >>

Note that PalmOS 3.xx applications (as used on the Dana) as well as their data files are quite small. Also that the Dana comes with two SD card slots.

<< By the way I did sign the petition and love epoc but also love the design of my psion 7 and have found no similar machine with a different os >>

There have been Windows CE based devices on the market equivalent to the Series 7. One example is the Hewlett Packard Jornada 820. The reason why you can no longer buy them is because Microsoft is no longer developing Windows CE for these devices.

<< I can't stand Palm os because it is more like PIM software than a full fledge os >>

PalmOS is as much a fully fledged operating system as EPOC or Symbian OS. Don't be fooled by the fact that it's mainly used in PDAs as there are very powerful third-party applications available for it.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 15 Aug 2003 00:01:07 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: The use of Ethernet on the Netbook

Dear Koi Hin,

<< I have been using WiFi in my MnetBook almost since I bought in early this year. It works very well, and if you have only thus far connectd to the web via dial-up, the connection speed improvement is impressive... >>

You're invited to install 802.11 wireless ethernet (I hate the nonsense term WiFi) in my home and improve my connection speed. I'm 100% sure you won't succeed because you live in the city where you have access to a cable connection you can link wirelessly to your netBook. I live in a rural area in which there's no cable TV nor ADSL. The only way I can get a high speed connection is by using a horrendously expensive satellite link.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

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Date: 15 Aug 2003 04:01:20 +0000

From: koihin

Subject: Re: The use of Ethernet on the Netbook

Reply to: Martin Guthrie

Dear Martin,

MG>I'm reading - and I haven't forgotten! :¬) I didn't publish anything in the last edition of FoxPop due to arrival of #2 son (predicted of course - but still somewhat time consuming!). However, I've promised Elisabeth the 1st article in the series in time for the next edition in September so there's no getting out of it.

First of all, congratulations on the birth of #2! Will keep a look out for the next issue.

Warm regards,

Koi Hin

*++++++++++&

Date: 15 Aug 2003 04:01:21 +0000

From: koihin

Subject: Re: Psion replacement?

Reply to: Peter Rand

Hi Peter,

Which ER5 device are you referring to in your post?

PR>The PalmOS itself is currently too feeble and crash-prone to provide the core functionality offered by ER5...

Which PalmOS version are you referring to? When you say feeble, in what respect do you mean?

PR>I've tested the SonyEricsson P800, the Nokia Communicator, the Apple iBook, the Zaurus C700,...

I know you have written before about the C700, but I would to hear again your impressions about this machine, as a replacement for your Revo. How well does it perform? In the 2 machinese scenario can the C700 replace your Psion? Opinions do change over time after all! I am looking at 2 machines right now as a possible replacement for my Revo, the Sony PEG UX-50 and the Sharp C760, i wont be making any purchase till next year January earliest and am trying find out what othes think of them. The Sony UX-50 I can try for myself when it hits these shores (assuming) but the Sharp series might never make it out of Japan, so apart from actually purchasing one I am unlikely to get my hands on one. Right now, my preference is for the Sharp C760 because of the of the higher resolution screen, open and flexible OS and a more tried and tested processor. down side would be the lack of integrated bluetooth and camera.