Epocdigest V1 # 326

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Epoc Digest Wed, 27 Aug 2003 Volume 01 : Number 326

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Sent to: 805 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 07 messages:

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- Re: Word

- netBook pro, Long lasting S7, Additional PDA, netBook Pro, Symbian,

- Re: opera save

- Re: Revo Battery Solution

- Leaving the Netbook open (2 Itamar)

- TubeRoute

- Re: Symbian Word format and RTF conversion macro

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Aug 2003 16:42:49 +0100

From: Martin

Subject: Re: Word

Subject: RTF files...

>Trygve wrote

>I don't think so.... >\jcompress\viewkind4\viewscale120\nolnhtadjtbl \fet0\sectd \linex0\sectdefaultcl {\footer \pard\plain \qc \li0\ri0\widctlpar\faauto\rin0\lin0\itap0 \f215\fs24\lang1033\langfe1033\cgrid\langnp1033\langfenp1033 {\f6\fs20 \chpgn >\par }}{\*\pnseclvl1\pnucrm\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang{\pntxta ..}}{\*\pnseclvl2\pnucltr\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang{\pntxta ..}}{\*\pnseclvl3\pndec\pnstart1\pnindent720\pnhang{\pntxta

>------

>See that piece of gobbledygook?

>That was cut from near the start of a .rtf file...

>A .RTF file is just text format(7bits in fact, so must even code the upper part of the alpabet), and every command is bracketed the way you see here.

> There's none of this in a Word file.

>..RTF files also tend to be bigger than Word files.... Maybe Word on Symbian 6.0/7.0 uses .RTF as internal format, but Word on ER3/ER5 doesn't. Also, all the documentation I've seen claims that all EPOC file formats are 'streams', not 'ordinary files' so don't expect anything beyond the first few Bytes to stay in a fixed position...<<

Symbian Word is using the CRichText class, which has not changed from ER5 to Symbian OS v6.0 and later. But you are right, Symbian's rich text is stored like a stream. Formatting is stored separate from the actual text, which is plain Ascii. See for instance http://huizen.dds.nl/~frodol/psiconv/html/Index.html

cheers

Martin

Dear Rolf,

>Rolf wrote

>>>I learned a loooong time ago that a User Interface (UI) is the range of *common* elements the user interacts with in order to operate and control applications. One of the common elements of the EIKON UI is, for example, that applications have a menu bar that's normally hidden from view unless called up on screen. Also that the first (from left to right) function group on the menu bar is the File group and the last function group the Tool group. And that the File group contains the Close function and the Tool group the About function. The rest of the function groups, and their individual functions, aren't part of the UI but belong to the application. Meaning that the 'Export to text file' function belongs to Word as implemented on the Psions rather than EIKON. The same applies to an 'Export to RTF' function - it's not part of EIKON nor of Series 80 - it's a functions the developer is free to implement. The only thing the developer has to do when (s)he implements it is that the functi on has to be part of the File function group on the menu bar.<<<

Generically speaking you are absolutely right. I am using the 'UI' term in the Symbian lingo. Today a Symbian UI, such as UIQ or Series 80, comprise of two layers: 1. The UI applications and 2. The UI user interface application framework. What this means in practice is that not only does the UI decide the common elements, controls, look and feel etc, it also decides what applications and features from the OS which are allowed to be accessed by the user, in other words, which are 'published' to the user. For instance in UIQ 2.0, Word and Sheet are not 'published' at all. There are some indications that in future versions of UIQ, they will.

If we now distance ourselves from the Symbian lingo, yes you might look at the absence of 'Save As RTF' in Word for ER5 as an application decision rather than a UI decision. Likewise you can look at the inclusion of 'Save as Word 2000' in Word for ER6 as an application decision rather than a UI decision. But that is not how Symbian normally describes it.

cheers

Martin Maxwell

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Aug 2003 19:13:53 +0100

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: netBook pro, Long lasting S7, Additional PDA, netBook Pro, Symbian,

Answer to: Martin

Re.: netBook pro - Not at all. I mean to say he should not make claims that he cannot be sure are correct. He can say that "it might help" or that Symbian "could" listen, but not that it is sure that the more signatures there are, the higher th elikelyhood they will listen. As I said, maybe Symbian will not even listen to 1 million signatures if it does not fit their strategy and their division of resources.

Answer to: Kevin thorne

Re. Long lasting S7 - I agree with you, but I would like a small pockatable unit in addition to my s7 to take my diary and phone numbers with me also when the S7 is too big like an evening out into town or the theatre, or just visiting friends. I am thinking about it <G>.

Answer to: Rolf Brunsting

Re. Additional PDA - Thanks for your answer. I know about the P800, but it is rather expensive in the UK and the T610 in the end came for free. And it is still quite bulky, some of the palms or pocket devices are very slim and easily fit in a shirt pocket. Also, the P800 would be an "overkill" as I really don't want the device to be more than a diary and databank. Maybe I should have another look at the REVO, I don't know. As said, I'll think about it.

Re. netBook Pro - Sure, they could. But will they be interested in selling these to individuals via the usual outlets ? If note they will not take an order for 1 netBook Pro from Itamar Engelsman with these programs installed. The current netBook runs OS 5 and OS 7 has not been programmed (yet) to run on a netBook. Will Symbian put in the manpower and funds to make it work ? I doubt it in the current plans and set-up for the nB Pro. So I suppose the question is not whether it is techincally possible but more whether or not they will do it. As to the REVO battery, the only problem with recharging in the middle is the reports that it creates problems. You did not have the problems and I don't own a REVO so Ican't really say much about it.

Message to All :

Re. Symbian - There was a report over the week-end in the Times in the UK that sales of Symbian based phones was taking off this year with an eleven fold increase in the number of units shipped. Sofar this year 2.7 million phones with their software were sold against 230,000 for last year. Symbian's software is used to power the emerging generation of colour-screen handsets. Although still rather expensive they are rapidly gaining popularity among consumers. Apparently 10 types of phone use the technology including the popular Nokia 7650 and 3650 and the SE P800. A further 26 phones are in development. Prediction are that 8 million units will be shipped this year, although Nokia has a more optimistic view of 10 million. Symbian needs abt. 20 million handsets to be sold before it breaks even. The Company gets little over $ 5.- for each handset sold. In the half just closed the Company made a loss of Gbp 13.9 million, reducing it's cash balance to Gbp 29.5 million. It's performance over the next 6 months will determine whether it needs to raise further finance (the Times in the UK of Friday 22/8/03)

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

London, UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Aug 2003 23:49:00 +0100

From: Alan Morris

Subject: Re: opera save

Gianluca Gallino wrote:-

<< I had just found out the cache thing a few days ago .... is there any other turnaround to solve this problem or it is just something we have to deal with? >>

If you use Macro5, as I do, it's a quick way to the cache folder.

Alan R Morris, G4ENS.

Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, UK.

Using a Psion 7 & Nokia 6210e

*++++++++++&

Date: 25 Aug 2003 08:56:52 +0100

From: Chris S Handley

Subject: Re: Revo Battery Solution

Dear Rolf,

>> Right and wrong. When my T610 or S7 battery is 75% full I

>> can recharge both back to 100% capacity, with the REVO you

>> can charge only once down to 15% otherwise you can get

>> problems. With the S7 I have a spare battery which will give

> Wrong on all counts, I'm afraid.

Errr, ditto, just about ;-)

> 1) There's nothing to prevent you from recharging the Revo's

> batteries at any point in time. When you're going to take a

Quite simply, the dreaded Revo battery problem often appears only if you charge it before it is nearly empty. I have experienced this on two Revos (out of two), as have many other people. Hence people religiously sticking to "only charge near 15 percent, and charge until it reaches 100 percent".

Once Psion have fixed the Revo, there still seems to be some chance that the problem will re-appear (probability unknown), but it seems best to not risk problems. I seem to recall it actually happened to my first fixed Revo (which now has a broken screen).

I would suggest that you have been lucky. Or that your charging habits may somehow prevent the Revo battery problem.

> 2) General rule for rechargeable batteries is that it's

> beneficial to run them down down to almost empty occasionally.

<snip>

> The same applies to your Series 7 and T610.

I have found the advice for Lithium batteries (e.g. Series7) VERY conflicting; no-one knows for sure AFAICT. I am currently using the advice that battery capacity will be reduced if you let them fully discharge, and therefore keep my Series7 fully charged most of the time. There was some anecdotal evidence to support this.

> 3) A 75% Revo charge level will last you for the 7-hour

> flight you mentioned in your previous message. The battery of

> the Series 7 won't last that long, meaning you need to carry

From my experience I would have to say the OPPOSITE to you! My (heavily used) Revo has a maximum capacity of 5 hours according to ChasDis. Whereas, if I removed my modem card (and maybe extra RAM), I could get 7 hours out of my Series7.

Regards,

Chris Handley

*++++++++++&

Date: 25 Aug 2003 20:17:13 +0100

From: Thomas F. VAN DER ZIJDEN

Subject: Leaving the Netbook open (2 Itamar)

Hi Itamar,

I understand that the Netbook won't shut off if you don't close it completely. However, shouldn't the "auto switch off" function do the work? Mine is set to 20 minutes.

Yours truly,

Thomas van der Zijden

*++++++++++&

Date: 26 Aug 2003 23:33:54 +0100

From: Alan Morris

Subject: TubeRoute

I've been looking for the current version of TubeRoute, but using the previous URLs, I keep getting access rejection messages.

http://www.chris.s.handley.btinternet.co.uk

http://www.chris.s.handley.btinternet.co.uk/TubeRoute_230303.zip

These fail and my version is an old beta.

Alan R Morris, G4ENS.

Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, UK.

Using a Psion 7 & Nokia 6210e

*++++++++++&

Date: 27 Aug 2003 08:55:02 +0100

From: David Steer $Plus$

Subject: Re: Symbian Word format and RTF conversion macro

Re: Symbian Word format and RTF conversion macro

Just some thoughts here. I have written a small program that counts signs in word (CountSigns). It works well on a standard document but does not work when an imbedded file is included in the document - it skips it. When we talk about saving in rtf format we seem to forget that the addition of embedded objects over Word in the Series 3 makes the format much more complex. The first stage would be to convert the word file to a flat format, including all the images, tables (sheet) and embedded documents. Then, and only then can you save it as RTF. May I suggest one of the conversion programs - Neuon's (www.Neuon.com) was very passable, though I think it had trouble with images (note to Neuon - please make the install process simpler!). Anyway, changing Word to RTF is possible, though I don't think a macro would do this - you would need to write a program like CountSigns that can pass the word file, pull out the text and the tags and then write out a new file in rtf format. To do that you would need to understand the word file format (note that files appear different for different language versions of word - research for CountSigns showed this). If I want to write documents that can be e-mailed for anybody to read I use PDF format - PDF print! In windows you can even cut and paste the document and all embedded objects actually go across. Yes, Word to rtf format is possible, I could even write an opl program that could do it given enough time to research (unless someone out there knows the structure for word documents and rtf documents) it. However, on a Series 7 you would need to wait for about 5 minutes for a 50k document. So, I give it to you, either nConvert of PDF Print!