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Epoc Digest Fri, 19 Sep 2003 Volume 01 : Number 343
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Sent to: 791 subscribers
In today's Epoc Digest 13 messages:
==============================
- Revo battery problems
- Re: Motorola Leaving Symbian (OT)
- synchro without a serial or Irda port
- 5mx - thanks
- Additional PDA,
- Old serial travel modem
- Re: Sony Clie NX73V
- Re: More about the netBook Pro...
- Re: 5MX to USB phone
- Re: mystery crash
- Psion repairs, Palm limitations, netBook PRO
- Re: TubeRoute
- Outlook Journal Entries to Agenda
*++++++++++&
Date: 18 Sep 2003 12:32:19 +0000
From: Ian Chapple
Subject: Revo battery problems
Rolf,
>> As I said previously, people suffer the most from what they fear. What you're read about recharging a Revo has given you a fright. It's as if you need to give the right prayers, make the right movements and that in the right order. And that all hell will break loose when you don't do it right, like moving clockwise when you should have moved anti-clockwise. It's not like that. There's a 'Best Practice' you're recommended to follow but can be deviated from if need be. <<
While what you say has an element of truth about it, the fact is that Revo is notorious for its battery problems. I'm sure that many people such as yourself are very happy with their Revos, but it's also clear that many Digestees have experienced these problems. I have been asked for advice several times by prospective PDA owners, and have always felt that I could never recommend the Revo, despite its obvious strong points, because it
was just too unreliable. The combinination of a device with poor battery management, no backup battery, no built-in card slot and flaky desktop software, is a poor one at best.
Cheers, Ian.
*++++++++++&
Date: 18 Sep 2003 13:23:36 +0000
From: Wong Koi Hin
Subject: Re: Motorola Leaving Symbian (OT)
Reply to Rolf Brunsting,
Dear Rolf,
Thank you for reply to my comments and correcting some misconceptions I have in regards to Symbian.
Kind regards,
Koi Hin
*++++++++++&
Date: 18 Sep 2003 14:22:52 +0000
From: Franco Cozzani
Subject: synchro without a serial or Irda port
Hello fellow Epochians,
how can I synchronize my MC 218 (= 5 mx) with a Toshiba laptop - running MS XP - which has no serial port and no IR port ?
Can I at least switch Word and Excel docs via a CF card reader plugged on the laptop ? Does the laptop make the conversion if I load PsiWin on it without the Psion connected ?
Thanks for advices and regards to everybody.
Franco COZZANI
Brussels
*++++++++++&
Date: 18 Sep 2003 15:17:52 +0000
From: Anne Parry
Subject: 5mx - thanks
For those of you (Arne, Trygve, David & Tony), who offered advice on using the 5mx, thanks a lot. The problem on using the IR, was that I had the link active, once I switched it off, I could swap my data without any problem. The PC recognised the new machine, I used the 7's cable and downloaded my programmes, so I am all go.
However, having suffered with the battery recharging problems on the Revo, constant soft/hard resets, being given the 5mx was the answer to my prayers....but now? Your recent competition on repair bills....I'm beginning to wonder? Should I have held out instead for the IPAC on my colleagues desk, not the 5mx?!!!
Regards,
Anne Parry
London
*++++++++++&
Date: 18 Sep 2003 15:53:46 +0000
From: Itamar Engelsman
Subject: Additional PDA,
Answer to: Rolf Brunsting & others
Re.: Additional PDA - Thanks for the advice, Rolf. I looked at a variety of machines last week and early this week and played around in several shops with different models. In the end I decided against the cheaper range and settled on a Sony Clie NX73V. This is not a cheap model, I know, but there were two overriding factors that made me decide to buy this one, 1/ the keyboard an 2/ handwriting recognition software. Allow me to give you a first impression here :
This is not a machine to replace any of my Psions. There is a clear difference in functionality between the Palms and the Psions. The Psions are small computers, the Palms are pda's, personal organisers, whatever you want to call it officially. The size is great, it fits comfortably in the inside pocket of my jacket, but is slightly too heavy for a shirt pocket. The screen is very clear and certainly superior to the colour screens in the S7 and nB (understandable). The keyboard you can't compare at all to the Psion's superior keyboards, but for entering a few words in a diary, database or similar program it certainly suffices and when lying flat on the table you get used to using it. The handwriting recognition program can be edited to suit your own handwriting and works very well with very few mistakes. It is the easiest way to enter text on this machine. After you open the screen you can use it either folded open for the keyboard or turn the screen around and close it again with the screen upwards for using it with stylus and few buttons on the side.
The PDA software of Palm is rather basic and one has to invest in some shareware to make full use of it. I almost immediately downloaded DateBk5 for a more complete diary function and will probably have to invest in a better database program as well. There is however a lot of shareware and freeware around.
This model has a camera integrated as well which I will not use much. There is also included a lot of software to store, edit and show photos (and little films) which I will use (once I will learn the full capabillities) for my photography business to show potential clients (who I happen to meet unexpectedly and ask me about my work) examples of my work.
Lastly for the moment the ease of synchronising the machine with a PC is amazing for us Psion users. Once you set it up you just put the machine in it's cradle, push the button on the cradle and end of story.
I'll report back in a few weeks with more detailed reports [this one of course typed on my S7].
Best regards,
Itamar Engelsman
London, UK
*++++++++++&
Date: 18 Sep 2003 15:53:53 +0000
From: Itamar Engelsman
Subject: Old serial travel modem
I still have a travelmodem lying around here. It is not the IR one but the older one with a serila cable lead.
If anyone is interested, please email me privately off digest.
Best regards,
Itamar Engelsman
London, UK
*++++++++++&
Date: 18 Sep 2003 21:31:27 +0000
From: Rolf Brunsting
Subject: Re: Sony Clie NX73V
Dear Itamar,
<< The Sony Clie NX73V caught my eye ... >>
Which I find very surprising as your requirements are rather modest. You'd like to have a PDA you can carry in your shirt or jacket pocket while visiting friends, while going to the theatre or to have with you on one of your part-time photography jobs. One that will be used to store your diary as well as your contacts database. In other words, a simple, small and light PDA ... which the Sony Clié PEG-NX73V certainly isn't. It's one of the largest, if not *the* largest, PDA currently on the market. Nor is it a simple PDA as it's range of features go way beyond what you need. When you consider the SonyEricsson P800 to be "overkill" the NX73V certainly falls into the same overkill category.
<< It has got a small keyboard, good enough to type in an appointment, contact, short note, etc. >>
You won't be entering large amounts of data into the NX73V when you're on a visit with friends, in the theatre or on a photography assignment. Which makes the keyboard, or rather - thumbboard, of the NX73V a marginal improvement over an on-screen keyboard or handwriting recognition.
<< It has got over 10 Mb of usable memory which should be enough for my (initial) needs, and further you can use both memory sticks as well as CF cards, and also the optional Wifi card (but expensive). >>
Your diary and contacts database will only take a fraction of the NX73V's 10 MByte internal memory. A PalmOS device with 2 MByte of internal memory will be more than sufficient.
As for a memory card slot, you're not going to use the NX73V on a business trip - when you're miles away from the data backup on your home or office PC. It will be awkward when you lose your diary file while visiting a friend - just when you want to check whether you're free next Sunday. But you'll be dealing with it in the same way you're dealing with it now - noting down the appointment on a piece of paper - checking your diary the next day and call when the appointment doesn't fit your schedule. Besides, when was the last time you had to restore your Psion from a backup because of some internal glitch?
Finally, WiFi or wireless ethernet. It's not only the WiFi card that's "expensive", the WiFi base station you need to connect the NX73V to your home or office PC will be expensive as well. And what are you going to use WiFi for - surfing the web from your comfy armchair?
<< It has got a new handwriting recognition program so no need to learn a shorthand >>
The new 'Graffiti 2' handwriting recognition system is the same as the one on the SonyEricsson P800 - Jot by CRC Systems. Reason why is because Palm lost a court case, can't use Graffiti anymore and has licensed Jot, renaming it Graffiti 2. Both the original Graffiti and Jot use a simplified form of character entry in which you don't always have to write the complete character. When you want to enter an F you simply write an upside down L and for an N you write an upside down U. Other characters like a P, Q and G are entered the way you normally write them on paper. Graffiti/Jot is therefore quite different from a true shorthand system like Pitman's. They're much easier to learn. Jot (a.k.a. Graffiti 2) is the easier of the two as character entry is closer to the way we've learned to write than the original Graffiti.
<< It has got a MP3 player and voice recorder >>
Are you really going to listen to MP3 music while visiting friends, going to the theatre or while on a photography assignment?
<< The Clie TG50 has got most of this as well without the camera (which I don't need) but the screen is considerably smaller and older Palm software >>
Your current requirements were already met by the very first Palm Pilot. It's therefore not mandatory for you to have the very latest revision of the PalmOS operating system and applications. A Palm Zire or M515, both running PalmOS 3.5x, will be more economical propositions. They've been discontinued, are advertised at very interesting prices and won't have hurt your wallet when you find that PalmOS isn't for you.
<< Is it possible to beam single contacts and appointments from the Sony to the S7 and back without any need for Outlook in between ? >>
I've already answered this question in a previous message.
<< Can you have multiple contact databases on the Palm machines ? >>
In one word : No. Not because Palm's equivalent to Contacts can only handle one file but because PalmOS doesn't use a file storage system like the Psions. PalmOS uses a database storage system, meaning that everything you store becomes a record in this database - an appointment, a note, a contact, a to-do, a piece of text, everything. Use the Palm's contacts application and it filters the contact records out of this database. Ditto for the Palm's diary, it filters out the appointment records. Result is that you can't have one diary file for business appointments, one file for private appointments, one file for club/society/association appointments, etc. The reason why PalmOS and its applications have used so-called 'Categories' right from the start. When you want to store a business related appointment you store it under the business category. When you want to view your business appointment you set the category to business and the diary filters all business category appointments out of the database.
--
Kind Regards,
Rolf Brunsting - Cawdor - Scotland
*++++++++++&
Date: 18 Sep 2003 21:31:30 +0000
From: Rolf Brunsting
Subject: Re: More about the netBook Pro...
Dear Martin,
<< It would minimise the need for additional development and maximise commonality with future migration paths >>
I think what people want to have isn't the maximised commonality of your "UIn" user interface but a 100% commonality with the EIKON user interface. They're using a wide range of EIKON based applications on their Psions and don't want to lose them when moving to a netBook Pro with Symbian OS 7 and UIn. After all, a number of third-party developers have retired from the Psion scene and their applications won't get the "minimum of additional development" for UIn. You can therefore question the value of a Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro with Bluetooth, USB and what you when it can't run the third-party applications you've come to rely on.
--
Kind Regards,
Rolf Brunsting - Cawdor - Scotland
*++++++++++&
Date: 18 Sep 2003 21:31:32 +0000
From: Rolf Brunsting
Subject: Re: 5MX to USB phone
Dear Bruce,
<< I've been able to use my 5MX with a null modem adapter on my motorola timeport P8167. However my old faithful motorola is dying and I will porbably have to replace it. To date, all I've been able to find are phones with USB interfaces >>
The Timeport P8167 is one of Motorola's North American models. I'm not that familiar with North American phones as it's surprisingly difficult to get reliable information on them when you live in Europe. However, when what's valid for Motorola's phones in Europe is also valid in North America than you're right - Motorola is using USB for cable connections with (mobile) computers nowadays. While you need a mobile phone with either a serial RS232C interface or an infrared interface.
Now, I'm not able to check which network types the P8167 supports. I'm travelling at the moment and don't have all my reference material with me. The phones listed below are therefore all triple band GSM phones, supporting the North American 1,900 MHz GSM networks, available in Europe with an infrared interface. They may not be suitable because (a) there's no GSM mobile network operator in your area and (b) they may not be on-sale in North America. Still, could be that this list sharpens the minds of your local mobile phone retailers.
GSM1900 + Infrared
- Nokia 3650
- Nokia 5100
- Nokia 6100
- Nokia 6310i
- Nokia 6610
- Nokia 7210
- Nokia 7250
- Nokia 7250i
- Panasonic GD87
- Sagem MY X-6
- Siemens S55
- Siemens SL55
- SonyEricsson P800
- SonyEricsson T68i
- SonyEricsson T300
- SonyEricsson T310
- SonyEricsson T610
--
Kind Regards,
Rolf Brunsting - Evanton - Scotland
*++++++++++&
Date: 18 Sep 2003 22:29:56 +0000
From: John Morris
Subject: Re: mystery crash
In the last fortnight I too have suffered from 3 complete lock-ups of my Mako while connected to Freeserve.co.uk via the IR port & a Nokia 6210i phone.
At first I assumed it was the first signs of battery problems, but after reading other postings it does seem to be ISP related.
My only thoughts is that it is in some way related to the Nachi worm / virus which seems to be prevalent at the moment (it infected all the XP machines at work despite firewalls & expensive anti-virus software).
John Morris
Cambs, UK
*++++++++++&
Date: 18 Sep 2003 22:30:15 +0000
From: Trygve Henriksen
Subject: Psion repairs, Palm limitations, netBook PRO
Greetings!
Malcolm asked:
> Cat-1) Which one of us has spent the most money on Psion repairs?
> Cat-2) Which one of us has had his Psion in for the most screen cable fixes?
1. You REALLY don't want to know what it costs to replace the screen on a netBook...
2. Never, because I did it myself. But before that I replaced the entire shell of my S5 because it was falling apart... (Both hinges were broken, the sliding cover for the external buttons was loose and the bit between it and the LED beside it was broken off so the transparent plastic piece was threatening to fall out)
----
vlad a wrote:
>> the OS doesn't allow you to run two instances of a single program at
>> the same time. (Like two Data files, or two spreadsheets)
> Afaik it does: just hold alt and open two different data bases, fi. In
> the sysem screen you have the setting for it.
Misunderstand me correctly please...
I wrote that the PALM doesn't allow two instances of the same program.
The Psion, on the other hand...
I have it set to open new instances when I use ONLY the enter key, or doubletap the files. (Mostly because I have some VERY large word files that takes ages to save :-)
----
Rolf Brunsting wrote:
> Trygve,
> << But what the users want is a netBook Pro WITH drivers for the new hardware, right? >>
> David's plan is based on Symbian OS 5 not Symbian OS 7. Psion
> Teklogix may therefore need different components or the same
> component in a different specification.
THAT will never happen. The PRO is so different internally from the netBook that they will have to rewrite a lot of the base OS to make it run.
(OS version and HW is very tightly integrated)
> << Also only for HW modifications... >>
> Forget it! A netBook running Symbian OS 5 doesn't exist.
I'll assume that you meant OS 7, not OS 5 (ER5) because my netBook runs that... :-)
> Meaning that you can't send an order for 500 of them into the factory
> without the instructions how the factory has to build and test them.
> What you need is a new component plan, new assembly instructions,
> new test protocol, etc.
This assumes that they need to make any changes to the HW to be able to run Symbian OS 7. If not, the only changes to their production phase is the bundling at the end.
And lets face it, PT will not consider OS 7 on it if it takes any HW modifications.
><< Any OS (with the exception of Linux or Aros, of course) costs >>
> Psion Teklogix will have existing licensing arrangements with Symbian.
> What needs to checked is whether the production of 500 netBooks Pro
> running Symbian OS 5 is covered by these arrangements. If not, a
> special arrangement needs to be made, which can have cost implications.
I think that was what I was trying to convey, that Symbian OS would cost to install. I'm just not certain how it would compare to ce.NET, after all, I doubt that M$ is letting them have it for free...
><< Aren't those HW certificates? >>
> Both CE and FCC certificates are device certificates rather than
> hardware certificates. How the software controls the hardware can
> have an effect on its CE/FCC classification. Replacing Windows
> ce.NET plus its applications by Symbian OS 5 plus its applications
> is a major change to the device.
I'll take your word for it.
> What you do need for these certificates is a complete set of technical
> and construction documents plus a complete description of the
> in-factory test and verification procedures plus a complete quality
> assurance plan for the product.
Most of that will have been done already if we assume that the HW remains unchanged, but you're right, there's probably a lot more costly paperwork than most of us can imagine...
><< Here comes the big OUCH! >>
> Creating the customer documentation for a Symbian OS 5 netBook Pro
> may not be as tough as it sounds because you can reuse large parts
> of the user manual and help file of the current netBook. It requires
> care and attention, though, as you need to filter out all netBook specific
> texts, instructions and illustrations.
Creating documentation ALWAYS takes more time and resources that calculated. There are so many small differences that will have to be updated, particularly if they use OS 7, not OS 5 on it.
> You're not dealing with a device that's in regular production, has a wide
> range of customers and is subject to the normal hardware and software
> revisions plus in-factory production improvements and refinements.
> You're dealing with a special product that's going to be manufactured
> in a one-off series of 500 units for one particular customer (David).
> What you therefore loose are the balancing out effects of a regular
> product. It's normal for the first production series of a product to have
> more warranty claims than the 35th production series.
Assuming that they use the same HW as the ce.net model(which is the only even remotely possible solution) they'll be sharing the 'bug batches' with the ce.NET machines. The only question then is whether or not OS 7 is more critical to variations caused by component tolerances than ce.NEt is.
> << I'll refrain from commenting about Psion and Support... >>
> As if Psion (Computers) = Psion (Dacom) = Psion (Teklogix). As
> if there's no difference between the technical support for consumer
> products and the technical support for (semi-)industrial products.
I can't speak about the English support, but the support for PT equipment here in Norway isn't much to brag about....
(Yes, I've dealt with them, and I believe I know more about PT equipment than them)
><< Actually, they are, but they're not the kind that wait for passersbys
> on a dimly lit street... >>
> So you consider companies to be prostitutes. Well ... I've written my
> reply to David using my professional experience in sales and product
> management for two manufacturers of industrial instruments. It appear
> that you consider my previous employers as prostitutes and, by
> implication, the people who work (and have worked) for them
> prostitutes as well.
SHEESH!
someone needs to chill out...
I meant that in the sense that if the price is right, most companies will do ANYTHING to secure a deal! (Not that they're working in the red-light district of Amsterdam, or wherever it is)
You should see what kind of deals we're offered every time we're in the market for 50 or 100 new Desktop PCs...
(Happens every now and then :-)
Or the time we decided to replace our ageing UB Networks HUBs on 'a few' locations. We had 3COM and CISCO resellers climbing over each others, to sell their boxes...
We got them to configure and install them for free...
(Saved me from making some long trips :-)
We got 35 Tandberg Ergovision Videoconferencing systems(that's top of the line sets as found in the Pentagon and the White house among other places) at a ridiculously low price.
I won't mention the dirty fighting that occured when we outsourced the WAN.
(Almost 200 locations, connected with IP/VPN, mostly 256Kbps or better, all across Norway)
Yes, our network budget is quite large...
:-)
Trygve
*++++++++++&
Date: 19 Sep 2003 01:19:44 +0000
From: Alan Morris
Subject: Re: TubeRoute
Chris S Handley wrote:-
<< The main stumbling block is converting a JPG map to MBM format; if someone could explain how to do this using PsiWin, etc, that would greatly help. >>
I think the best tutorial and files required are to be found on Kevin Millican's RealMaps web site:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/millican/realmaps/
To get the actual page use:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/millican/realmaps/EPOCpic.htm
Whilst typing, I've just realised that we started with a .JPG and not a .BMP, so any paint program should be able to convert .JPG to .BMP as they are both Windows types.
However the above may also be of interest to others on the Digest.
I've also noticed a new update to RealMaps with COLOUR maps on 7s and nBs.
--
Alan R Morris, G4ENS.
Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, UK.
Using a Psion 7 & Nokia 6210e.
*++++++++++&
Date: 19 Sep 2003 09:52:17 +0000
From: Patterson, Crawford
Subject: Outlook Journal Entries to Agenda
Does anyone know if MS Outlook Journal entries can be synced to EPOC Agenda.
Crawford Patterson
*++++++++++&
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