Epocdigest V1 # 345

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Epoc Digest Sun, 21 Sep 2003 Volume 01 : Number 345

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Sent to: 789 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 11 messages:

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-- Itamar's New Machine

- REVO, Sony Clie,

- Re: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 343

- Re: AbiWord

- Re: Revo battery problems

- Re. Revo battery problems

- Obtaining permission for MBMView

- Re. most repairs

- Screencable

- 5MX v. IPAC, Conecting T38i to 5MX, broadband,

*++++++++++&

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003

From: Digest administrator

Subject:

Hi Martin,

Your email server returned the last 3 digests. We temporarily unsubscribed you for a week and hope you will read this via other sources. Please either solve the problem with your system administrator or subscribe with a different email address.

With best regards

Rolf Vonau

The Epoc Digest Team

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Date: 20 Sep 2003 22:42:00 +0100

From: Jim Watson-Gove

Subject: Itamar's New Machine

Itamar,

<<This is not a cheap model, I know, but there were two overriding factors that made me decide to buy this one, 1/ the keyboard an 2/

handwriting recognition software. Allow me to give you a first impression here :>>

Once you's solved the problem of transferring files between the 7 and the new machine, I will be questioning how you do it - primarily word files. I've tried the transfer programs suggested on the list without success.

Welcome to the world of Palm OS. I've made that distinction (computer vs organizer) for years (Psion 3a vs Zaurus). As Palm OS progresses, the distinctions become blurred. The new Palm machines can do one heck of a lot.

My dream was a Psion 5mx (or Mako if I could ever get the battery problems sorted out) and a Netbook at home. Now it's a Treo in my shirt pocket, and a Dana at home for the heavy work. At $100 for the Treo 90 (with thumbboard) and $390 for the Dana, and both machines supported into the forseeable

future, it's economically attractive (my father was born in Aberdeen, Scotland).

So says he, while still carrying around the 5mx for spreadsheets and complex emailing to an arts elist.

and to Rolf,

<<You won't be entering large amounts of data into the NX73V when you're on a

visit with friends, in the theatre or on a photography assignment. Which makes

the keyboard, or rather - thumbboard, of the NX73V a marginal improvement over

an on-screen keyboard or handwriting recognition.>>

I do an aweful lot of thumbboard entry out in the real world - agenda entrees, addresses, the occasional note, short poems where the slowness aids the creative process. I would not consider a Palm machine without at least a thumbboard. But that's what makes horse races possible (differences of opinion).

Now to the task of connecting a spell check to my email app.

jim - port townsend

sent from my Dana using Mark/Space Mail

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Sep 2003 01:15:14 +0100

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: REVO, Sony Clie,

Answer to: Ian Chapple

Re.: REVO - I am not a REVO user and could neither confirm nor deny the battery problems. Thanks for confirming that at least it is something more than just "my imagination".

Answer to: Rolf Brunsting

Re. Sony Clie - First of all thanks for your answers, which are always thought provoking and interesting to read. You have a way of analysing situations (which probably made you succesful in your job too).

Yes, you are right, in the end I opted for a higher spec and size model than I initially thought off. However, I believe in being open minded and flexible / dynamic. After my extensive research over the web and in the shops I decided that I prefered this higher spec machine above the cheaper ones. Even though it might be the *largest* it still fits easily in the inside pocket of my jacket (which I ware 95% of the time). I know you advised me the P800, but my main reasons for not going for that one were that 1/ I did not want a phone/PDA combination, 2/ I don't need WORD, SHEET etc. on this PDA (my S7 is great for that) and 3/ I wanted to delve into a different platform in preparation for a (hopefully still far away) future after EPOC / Symbian operated machines.

>> Keyboard : Correct, I will not be entering large quantities of text, but I don't want to learn a graffitti style input (still remember your own message written with it as an example full of mistakes <G>) and the handwriting recognition does really work extremely well too. I decided I wanted the option of the thumbboard, maybe irrational or incorrect, but that's what I wanted.

>> Memory : Right, but as said I plan to use it quite extensively for my photography business storing a multitude of photos for which I will need to buy a memorystick without a doubt. Just the idea to walk around with a complete portfolio of my work inside a PDA is thought provoking and will undoubtedly impress many a potential client I happen to meet (and that happens quite often actually). With a memorystick it is also possible to back-up the internal disk on the stick, thereby eliminating the problem you describe about losing my diary when traveling (which risk also exists with the Psions and I ALWAYS back up my internal disk on the S7 on a CF card when traveling).

>> WIFI : Expensive indeed and I don't think I'll be using it.

>> Graffiti 2 : No, the Sony Clie has got a totally different program called Decuma. It gives a totally different line at the bottom of the screen where you can write in your own handwriting. Entering the program you can write each letter the way you write it into the memory of the program so it will recognise _your_ handwriting. where you start the letter, finish it, shape it, etc. Once done there is hardly a mistake in the input, amazing really.

>> MP3 : No, not at friends but on the way somewhere in the bus or underground or even in an airport or plane, yes, why not ?

>> Smaller machines : You write that "your current requirements were already met by the very first Palm Pilot". Well, why would I buy a machine that meets my current requirements but with which I could not grow without upgrading again ?

>> Multiple files : Thanks for the explanantion. However, there are third party database programs that will allow for multiple data lists, even if it is within the program (somewhat like the S3 series) and not file driven like the EPOC machines.

Rolf, I know you advised me the P800 and after that a smaller Palm. Again, thanks for the advice and I did think about it, but in the end I decided differently and your input helped me with my decision. If Psion would have continued the development of their machines I would not have bought a different make. However, now that they stopped I felt the desire to branch out and get to grips with another system that for the (again hopefully long lasting) time being will complement my S7 which will still be my major machine. Sofar I am happy but the learning curve is still steep and time limited (yr message taught me there are categories in the agenda <G>).

[sorry for the long reply]

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

London, UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Sep 2003 03:45:13 +0100

From: Martin Maxwell

Subject: Re: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 343

Answer to: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: netBook Pro Symbian...

Dear Rolf,

>>>I think what people want to have isn't the maximised commonality of your "UIn" user interface but a 100% commonality with the EIKON user interface. They're using a wide range of EIKON based applications on their Psions and don't want to lose them when moving to a netBook Pro with Symbian OS 7 and UIn. After all, a number of third-party developers have retired from the Psion scene and their applications won't get the "minimum of additional development" for UIn.<<<

I am aware of the concerns. But all things considered - not the least the total absence of silkscreen buttons on the nB Pro - I now believe that adjusting the UIQ for the netBook Pro the better and more realistic option. A port of Eikon applications over to OS 7.0 *also* involves work from retired (and even passed away, bless his soul) 3rd party developers. And using the Eikon+ER5 option will not support new hardware features of nB Pro. So what to do, lah?

I think the most realistic and future oriented option is:

- Base the nB Pro Symbian on Symbian OS7.0 + UIQ. Modify UIQ to the netBook screen and user input options. I call this 'UIn'. This will make it easy to port the latest Symbian applications over to nB Pro.

- Develop an ER5+Eikon emulator that takes up 640x480 pixels of the 800x600 screen (whereby the remaining screen area can be used for 'soft' Eikon silkscreen buttons etc'). Despite the Ascii-Unicode conflict this should be perfectly possible.

>>> You can therefore question the value of a Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro with Bluetooth, USB and what you when it can't run the third-party applications you've come to rely on.<<<

1. Would Psion let a device out of its door with hardware features that are not supported by the OS? I do not think so.

2. You are thereby saying no to a potentially huge market. There is actually a rapidly growing enterprise market which actually do not want to have anything to do with anything Microsoft. Secondly, would people buy a netBook Pro which due to software limitations is essentially the same as the current netBook? I do not think so either. They will rather stick with the existing machines. There will never be another machine that can run the ER5+Eikon combination better than the netBook Classic.

Kind regards

Martin Maxwell

Singapore

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Sep 2003 06:26:14 +0100

From: Keith Giles

Subject: Re: AbiWord

Koi Hin wrote:

> You may also be interested in knowing the free and open-sourced > AbiWord word processor can open and edit Epoc word files and

> subsequently save them in popular formats.

I looked at the web site. There is a "psion" plugin mentioned. I can't figure out just how to get the plugin. Can you tell me?

I *hate* these web sites that tell you about something that's available but don't tell you just how to get it. I end up going around in circles clicking on links.

Happy Cycling,

Keith

Sunnyvale, CA

http://ohsix827.home.comcast.net

Thought For The Day: Flattery is the art of telling another person exactly what he thinks of himself.

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Sep 2003 08:12:14 +0100

From: Mike Dyer

Subject: Re: Revo battery problems

----- Original Message -----

Date: 20 Sep 2003 01:38:56 +0000

From: Alan Morris Subject: Re: Revo battery problems

Ian Chapple wrote:-

<< The combinination of a device with poor battery management, no backup battery, no built-in card slot and flaky desktop software, is a poor one at best. >>

Alan Morris wrote:-

I don't recognise my Revo+ here Ian.

Me neither, my Revo+ is nearly 2 years old now, it will run for a week of intermittant use between charges, and at the weekend I plug it directly into the power supply at night and let the built in charging circuit get on with it.

*I* believe peoples problems are down to ignorance of the characteristics of NiMh batteries, particularly if they part charge the thing with the docking cradle.

Of course if Psion had the wisdom to fit Lithium Ion batteries, this wouldn't have been an issue, but at least 'our' screen cables don't break ;o)

Mike Dyer.

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Sep 2003 08:24:57 +0100

From: ian chapple

Subject: Re. Revo battery problems

Alan,

>>I don't recognise my Revo+ here Ian.

No battery problems (I use ChaDis). No backup battery is not a problem as I manage the charge level without any problems (again I use ChaDis).

No card slot, not ideal but a good IR port is almost as good.

What software is flaky? I use mine everyday without any software problems. I use all apps except Agenda, as Agenda is superior on my 3mx which is also used everyday. <<

Sorry, when I said flaky, I meant PsiWin, not any of the built-in Psion applications, which I have always thought to be second to none.

However, your solution to the battery issue, ie. using a 3rd party application to monitor the state of the battery, just reinforces the idea that the Revo's own battery management is poor, and can't be relied on. This certainly makes it a poor choice of PDA for any but the most die-hard of Psion enthousiasts. As I said in my previous posting, I'm sure that there are many happy Revo users out there, you and Rolf being two of them, but it's also clear that many users have either completely given up on the Revo, or resorted to extreme measures to circumvent the battery problem, such as shoving it in the freezer while it charges.

Cheers, Ian.

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Sep 2003 08:38:16 +0100

From: Chris S Handley

Subject: Obtaining permission for MBMView

Rolf,

I seem to recall that you were (apparently) trying to get the deceased author's relatives to give permission for MBMView to be freeware and/or maintained by someone else?

Have you made any progress on this, now that you seem to have more spare time again? If not, perhaps someone else should try? (Not me! :-)

---

Chris Handley

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Sep 2003 08:39:41 +0100

From: ian chapple

Subject: Re. most repairs

Like David, I have had a whole host of Psion machines, with only very few repairs.

3a - eventually the hinge broke while in my wife's handbag.

3c - backlight failed immediately after purchase, needed new daughter-board, backlight failed again after 2 years - definitely a dud.

3mx - no problems.

Series 7 - non-functioning microphone repaired while under warranty, subsequently found out the just pressing the case above the microphone would probably have fixed it.

5mx - no problems so far.

netbook - had to return my first netbook to David Lowe after a week due to "pressure point" in the centre of the screen, replacement has worked flawlessly for the last 5 months or so. Combination of netbook, WiFi and ADSL outstanding.

Whether these problems are better or worse than average, and whether Psions can be considered reliable or unreliable, I don't know, but I certainly intend to use them for many years to come, spare parts permitting...

Cheers, Ian.

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Sep 2003 12:31:43 +0100

From: Timothy H.D. Williams

Subject: Screencable

With so many people complaining about the screen cable, I can't help

wondering whether the Netpad is not a money-saving alternative to the

5mx. It is a lot lighter than the Netbook.

It is available from Clove at 800 gbp plus VAT and from Christoph

Pulster at €1500.

Is any lister to using it?

---

"Oh, sure, you can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely

true!"

- Homer Simpson

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Date: 21 Sep 2003 13:59:39 +0100

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: 5MX v. IPAC, Conecting T38i to 5MX, broadband,

Answer to: Martin Guthrie

Re.: 5MX v. IPAC - Thanks for the message and the article which I read just now. I think you are quite right if you try to replace one machine with the other. However, it is also possible to complement a 5MX or a S7/nB with a palmtop or PocketPC machine which are smaller and easier to carry around. The Psion community has indeed always been warm and great to "cyber hang around with", always helpful, and I think this digest is part of that.

Answer to: Nigel Bonnett

Re. Conecting T38i to 5MX - I suggest you have a look at the website of Mike Mcconnell where you will probably find all the details you require at http://www.mikemcc.org.uk.

Answer to: Anthony Napier

Re. broadband - I use Eclipse and not BT, but am using my ADSL line to download my email very fast with the help of the "MochaPPP" program. It works a treat both in sending and receiving of email, although you do need to connect via the PC.