Epocdigest V1 # 432

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Epoc Digest Mon, 26 Jan 2004 Volume 01 : Number 432

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Sent to: 798 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 14 messages:

==============================

- Re: Epoc Digest V1 # 430 (7) : Re : Internet in Houston (4Thomas )

- Re psion "english dictionary" (4 Moshe); Backing up a 5mx to a Revo (4 Ray);

- www.psioncomputer.com

- Netbook with Scandinavian keys/characters

- Colour Icons in FreeNote? For Jack

- Psion Journal, LittleSense, Email addresses, Advertising on the list, Spam & the

- Power/Backlight

- Advertising

- Re: Apple iPod battery problem

- Re: Psion's Backside

- Re: GPRS aircard/netbook

- Re: UK Power Supply for Netbok

- Re: Mobile phones and roaming

- Re: Spam & the Digest's anti-spam protection

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Jan 2004 10:23:41 +0100

From: Arent Kits van Heijningen

Subject: Re: Epoc Digest V1 # 430 (7) : Re : Internet in Houston (4Thomas )

Op: 21 Jan 2004 18:26:49 +0100 schreef :

Thomas F. VAN DER ZIJDEN over : Netbook US adapter / Internet in Houston / WLAN

Re Netbook/MNBook power adapter

>>1) I followed the discussion on this list, but failed to draw the conclusion. Which is the cheapest / best way to obtain a US power adapter for my beloved Malaybook ? I am now still in Belgium. Would Expansys then still be the way ?<< Anything handling 15 Volts at 1.5 Amps or better should do , the higher the current rating the better ( better able to handle brownouts )

>>2) I was wondering : do Americans have broadband Internet for home use ? What is available in the Houston area ?<<

Yes , and they are far ahead of Continental Europe ( except parts of the Benelux and Scandinavia )

You have the option to get Internet via the cable TV operator or DSL via one of the Baby Bells , resp a local phone company

For detailed info see : http://text.dslreports.com/ ( works in Web )My own 0.02 Eur worth :

There's no unbundled access : i.e. you have to take the Cable Operator/RBOC'S own internet service

In plain text this means you have to put up with their policies with respect to privacy and unsolicited/indirectly solicited mass email To make a long story short , expect to get spam and lots of that to boot , no matter how careful you are with your email adress Their policies ( especially those of the Baby Bells ) with respect to spam/ISCE can be described in short as follows :

1 Anything coming from a valid system adress ( containing the Customer's Premises Equipment's IP adress , followed by the sending provider's FQDN ) IS considered a valid message and dropped in your inbox

To paraphrase in your native tongue : "Wij hebben geen boodschap aan de boodschap " so expect your fair share of dubious offers of all categories ( no need to elaborate here )

Some even have gone so far as to incorporate special flags in email messages to let them pass the spam filters of other providers !

So be warned

2 They have the right to divulge your email adress to their business partners ( how shady they may be ! ) or provide services to mass emailers allowing them to target your inbox !

You may have difficulties with non-M$ operating systems ( reason why some manufacturers of residential/small business gateway devices now use Windows NT Embedded in their products , look at www.windowsfordevices.com ) - especially when you are going cable - have a look at the operators web site

Links ( only the major Cableco's/RBOC's shown )

Cable : ( Warning : Lots of spam ! )

www.comcast.com ( none )

www.adelphia.com ( none )

www.chartermi.com ( MSN ) ( Charter Communications )

www.rr.com ( AOL/TW ) ( RoadRunner )

DSL : ( Warning : Lots of spam ! )

Ameritech :

http://www.ameritech.net/visitors/ ( Yahoo )

PacBell/SWBell

www.pacbell.net ( Yahoo )

www.swbell.net ( Yahoo )

http://www.sbc.com ( this one is active in TX )

Verizon :

http://www.verizon.net and

http://www22.verizon.com/ForHomeDSL/channels/dsl/forhomedsl.asp?verizon_referrer=volnet

Covad (UNBUNDLED ADSL access ) :

www.covad.com ( generic , portal )

www.covad.net ( subscriber login page ) ( requires recent browser ! , does not work with handheld browsers except NetFront 3 !)

You can check on the websites if their services are available in your area

Hope this helps

>>Any other comments on life in Texas by either expats or Texans are very welcome by PM, as I do not have any idea on what I just put myself in. :-)<<

Be prepared that you put yourself in a mess

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Jan 2004 15:30:17 +0100

From: Jack

Subject: Re psion "english dictionary" (4 Moshe); Backing up a 5mx to a Revo (4 Ray);

To : Moshe Nahir

"a question re LittleSense"

<<<I have a problem with my 5mx and will be grateful for any advice. I have been using the English dictionary >>>

Re :

Hi Moshe,

http://www.google.com/search?meta=lr%3Dlang_all%26hl%3Dfr&q=psion+%22english+dictionary%22&atpgm=OK

did it for me

I'm afraid the most extensive ENG dictionaries are in TR or Mobipocket format

--------------------

To Ray Upton Backing up a 5mx to a Revo

<<<... PSIWin recognises it as a different psion...>>

Re:

That's why psiwin can't *restore*.

For the Revo to be recognised, you should "psiwinREInstall" the Revo and edit or choose the same Name that you long? ago chose for your deceased 5.

Or, simpler, under psiwin Copy from PC then Paste to Revo the needed directories .

A PC/5/backup/ to PC/Revo/backup/ copy then a Revo restore should also work.

Jack

"This is a Epoc-mailed msg... irrelevant of antivirus.... messaging X Epoc Email liberates from viruses, worms, horses..."

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Jan 2004 16:36:19 +0100

From: Will Green

Subject: www.psioncomputer.com

For Neil Ogden.

www.psioncomputer.com seems fine, maybe the server was being worked on for a bit when you tried it?

Kind Regards,

Will.

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Jan 2004 17:04:48 +0100

From: Axel Moberg

Subject: Netbook with Scandinavian keys/characters

Hi,

I'm a new kid on the block, and rather ill-informed and confused. Where do I find information on what has happened to Psion and Netbook generally?

Can netBooks be found anywhere at all?

And, the crucial question, can the version with Scandinavian keys be found anywhere?

If not a dealer, does anyone know about a good place to find them second hand?

Axel Moberg

Stcokholm

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Jan 2004 17:28:07 +0100

From: Philip Bister

Subject: Colour Icons in FreeNote? For Jack

Jack wrote:

> Any chance to get a colo(u)ris(z)ed icon in your nice FreeNote 3.08 ?

Pleased you like FreeNote, Jack.

A colour icon is not beyond the realms of possibility, and I have given some consideration to this. At the moment, I think the most reliable, and best approach would be to prepare two distribution copies. One for colour machines, and the other for monochrome.

When I'm next updating the program, I shall do this.

Philip

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Jan 2004 20:46:20 +0100

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: Psion Journal, LittleSense, Email addresses, Advertising on the list, Spam & the

Answer to: Neil Ogden

Re.: Psion Journal - Just tried the website now and got in first time. Give it some time, websites are down sometimes.

Answer to: Moshe Nahir

Re. LittleSense - If you kept the registration details you can just re-enter the same one. If you did not and they have gone out of business than you have a problem. Sometimes passwords are linked to the user name or machine and in such cases someones elses registration will not help either. I basically write this (unhelpful) answer to remind others to write down all registration details for all the software you have running on your Psion and other computers.

Answer to: Antony

Re. Email addresses - Repeating Rolf's answer, there are ** no ** email addresses in the digest archive on the web.

Answer to: Marcus von Cube

Re. Advertising on the list - The digest is a free list run by volunteers, 4 operators in 4 different countries. There is no money involved and we do not need monetary help. We have allowed people advertising their Psion hard- and software on the digest, as long as further discussions and negotiations are done directly off digest. We will continue this policy happily (my own answer, not co-ordinated with the other operators).

Answer to: Chris Handley

Re. Spam & the Digest - I note from your message that your email address is already hidden in the digest. Anyone who is worried about the same can send a message to the digest with ADMIN in the subject field and request for their email address to be hidden. We think this gives both opinions the option, have their email address shown or not. As both possibillities exist in the digest, maybe we can finish this topic now ?

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

London, UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 25 Jan 2004 13:12:13 +0100

From: Philip S.Adkins Potter

Subject: Power/Backlight

Hi,

My 5mx has developed what seems to be a rather funny problem.

I use it mostly at home on the external power supply using a POD Docking Station, power supplied through the Honda connector. I use the backlight at home most of the time too. In Macro5 the backlight is ON under external power, ditto Merlin with the timeout set to maximum.

With the power LED (left-hand side of the keyboard) on the backlight occasionally switches off and on erratically. According to the System screen (Information, Battery, Shift-Ctrl-P) this happens, LED still on, apparently with external power and without. This problem is intermittent (translation: bl**dy frustrating).

I should emphasise that the power supply is plugged in, switched on and the LED lit throughout.

Does anyone know anything about this?

I'm running StickyKeys and Robin Hood's Task Manager as well as Merlin and Macro5, though I rather doubt anything other than Merlin and Macro5 address the backlight.

A confused

Phil.

"Adults are obsolete children."

*++++++++++&

Date: 25 Jan 2004 13:24:09 +0100

From: Jim Watson-Gove

Subject: Advertising

Marcus,

<<So let Chris, Will and others use this list as a means of reaching some more customers worldwide.

They are, of course, invited to help run the list, be it by personal or monetary help ;-) >>

A better idea would be to require them to get together and acquire the resources to supply leads, memory, board repair, new screens, etc and commit

to designing a new better Psion retaining all the features we like and adding those we wish added. It's the least they could do.

Just kidding folks

jim

*++++++++++&

Date: 25 Jan 2004 22:06:30 +0100

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Apple iPod battery problem

Dear Itamar,

<< Well, it is not ONLY Psion that have battery problems >>

Reading your message I doubt we can call this a problem. Looks to me that the iPod's batteries don't perform as some owners expected. The reason why is easy to explain as the iPod's LiIon batteries can be recharged between 500 and 600 times before they're exhausted. When you're one of those people who have a music player plugged into their ears almost the whole day you'll need to recharge the batteries each day. Even more than once. This inevitable leads to the battery lifetime of 18 months as you mention. When you don't realise this at time of purchase you're in for an unpleasant surprise when they do fail after 18 months. The more typical user, who doesn't listen to his/her iPod that intensively, may get 3 - 3.5 years of life out of them.

<< In the beginning they advised users to throw it away at the end of the battery life which created an uproar in the USA >>

Question is whether this is Apple's official response or what (disgruntled) people have made of it.

Apple's statement isn't strange one when the typical iPod user does get a 3 - 3.5 year battery life. Which is longer than the average ownership for this type of device (2 - 2.5 years). Apple therefore expects most people to have replaced their iPods by a (much improved) new model before the batteries of their old one are exhausted. Others will replace their iPods later when its batteries are gone.

Which leaves the group of high intensity users for whom the iPod isn't the right device, battery wise. They're better served by an MP3 player with user replaceable batteries. They can listen for even more hours per day by simply swapping batteries. And when the batteries are exhausted they can go out and buy a new set.

<< At least they saw their mistake and addresses the matter. >>

Apple may not have realised how many people would need a battery replacement service. That's something Psion can't be accused of. When the Revo was launched there was the question of what to do when its batteries would be exhausted. Psion responded that batteries could replaced and mentioned a charge equivalent to what Apple's asking for the same service.

As for the Revo's so-called battery problem, this has actually nothing to do with the Revo's batteries. Trouble is that it has been called 'battery problem' right from the start. It's now so firmly established in people's minds that you can't get it out anymore. Even when you explain what the problem actually is, and how you can solve it, it remains a 'battery problem'. Thereby proving that the customer isn't always right.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 25 Jan 2004 22:06:41 +0100

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Psion's Backside

Dear Alan,

<< I wonder if Mr Potter just made an excellent business move ... In 1981 he formed Psion - Potter's Scientific Instruments Or Nothing Two decades ago, designing and manufacturing real products was a way of making money >>

It could easily have been been 'Nothing' shortly after 1981. General rule is that two thirds of start-up companies fail within five years. The odds were against Psion succeeding. Note that Psion wasn't a hardware manufacturer right from the start. Its first activity was developing software for Sinclair computers - the ZX80, ZX81 .. etc. Had these been a flop, Psion would have gone down with them.

<< By selling his very successful product, the EPOC OS and apps, to Symbian, he has made a one off profit and now no doubt, takes income from it's profits. So no more effort in running a successful company, he can retire with an income from a mass market - mobile phones, where he would not have been able to compete profitably. >>

Sorry, but this is both incorrect and a bit unfair to Dr. David Potter.

Psion has been a publicly listed company for a long time - its shares are traded on the London stock exchange. Dr. Potter is therefore no longer the sole owner of Psion as it's now in public hands. Nor is Dr. Potter running Psion anymore as he moved out of the CEO position some years ago. He's now president of the supervisory board of Psion Plc. Meaning that he does have an influence, also as company founder, but he's no longer in control of the company.

I understand that Dr. Potter still has a minority shareholding in Psion Plc. Though smaller than it was as he sold part of his Psion shares, representing £1.3 million, during the time of the Series 3c (if memory serves me well). He won't have worked at Psion for a pittance either. The posts he's served, and is currently serving, are well paid and supplied with a number of perks that go with the job. He will also have earned pasts dividends on his shares. I therefore think it's fair to say that Dr. Potter was sufficiently wealthy to have retired in comfort well before Symbian was founded.

As for EPOC, it wasn't sold. Not by Dr. Potter nor by Psion Plc. Symbian is a joint venture in the form of a limited company. What Psion Plc. brought in were the assets of Psion Software. What Nokia and Ericsson contributed was mainly financial. Psion Plc. was compensated by receiving £16 million plus the royalty free use of a number of Nokia patents. Psion Plc. is therefore one of the shareholders of Symbian Ltd. Actually, the second largest shareholder (31.2%) after Nokia (32%).

This gives Dr. Potter an indirect share of Symbian through his shareholding in Psion Plc. though a *very* small one. He won't have enjoyed any earnings from this as Symbian has posted losses for as long as it exists. The Symbian partners, including Psion Plc., have pumped millions into Symbian for it to develop Symbian OS and to make it ready for practical implementations. It looks that 2003 will be the first year in which Symbian will make a small profit. The practical value of Dr. Potter's indirect share is therefore nil. It has only an on-paper value as you have to estimate what Symbian Ltd. is worth. Then to estimate what this means to Psion Plc. on the basis of its 31.2% share in Symbian Ltd. It's only after this that you can say what it means to Dr. Potter's personal shareholding in Psion Plc. True value will be established when Symbian Ltd. goes public and becomes listed on the stock exchange.

Psion Plc. therefore still owns EPOC / Symbian OS if only for 31.2% rather than the 100% of the pre-Series 5 days. Question is whether Psion Plc. (in the form of its Psion Software division) could have brought it up to the current Symbian OS 7 level all on its own. Given the millions the partners have pumped into Symbian the question is a clear No. Psion Plc. has simply been too small to a company for this. Its cash flow didn't allow for such developments and it wouldn't have been able to raise the necessary finances by other means. Forming a joint venture is then the best solution as it brings in investors without the significant loss of control of a (partial) sale.

That Psion withdrew from the PDA market has not much to do with the formation of Symbian. It's more that there's a limit to what a medium sized technology company like Psion can do. They're at their best when they can operate in a relatively small specialised market. One in which there aren't that many players active, specially the big corporations. That was the case for Psion during the Organiser and Series 3 years. The Series 3c, for example, had competition form HP (200LX) and Sharp (Zaurus 5xxx) only. It allowed Psion to keep a sufficient margin on its PDAs. Well, the market changed. Apple created a new type of PDA which Palm turned into a much more market orientated device. Microsoft entered the market and in its wake a number of big electronics and computer companies. In other words, the market turned from a rather specialised one into a mainstream one. The inevitable result of such a change is consolidation and commoditisation. I mean by consolidation that the number of different types of device are reduced. Palm became the norm in the PDA market just as the PC and the Mac became the norm in the desktop computer market. This leads to commoditisation as manufacturers release devices that almost look the same and almost do the same things. What you get is a price driven competition in which the product margins are sharply reduced. When that happens you can don but one of three things as a medium sized company:

1) Go mainstream yourself - Psion's PDAs becoming Palm clones, for example,

2) Look for a sufficiently large niche, allowing you to become a specialised supplier again,

or,

3) Get out.

Option no. 1 wasn't really an option as a psion PDA was as much defined by its software as by its hardware. Psion initially chose option no. 2 by developing a new wireless PDA, the Odin project, together with Motorola. However, when Motorola pulled out the project was at a stage which didn't allow Psion to finish it on its own. Which inevitably drove Psion to choose option no. 3.

<< The company, Psion which ended at it's peak, will remain well known as the designer of the world's best portable computer of it's era. Micro$oft being known as the world's best marketing company >>

This points to an extremely simplistic view of marketing. Marketing is much more than the promotion of a product. What's more, the promotional side of marketing is not able to save a bad product. You may be able to buy the product some extra time, but down the drain it will go. The individual consumer may not always be that clever in his/her individual purchases. The consumer isn't stupid, however, and won't keep a bad product on the market.

Microsoft Windows, despite what people say, isn't a bad product. It may not win the gold award for sheer technological excellence. But what Windows offers is sufficiently well above average to satisfy a very larger group of diverse users. And Microsoft aims to keep its users satisfied by responding to their wishes. What the company can be accused of is that this results in Microsoft doing too many things at the same time. Something that doesn't contribute to a very well engineered product. Still, Windows does a more than sufficient number of things right for it to continue to find favour.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 25 Jan 2004 22:06:56 +0100

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: GPRS aircard/netbook

Dear Donald,

<< I've been checking the digest out for some time now, hoping to hear some news about the GPRS aircard (T-Mobile in the US NEW YORK region) being used with the netbook (even an older netbook version) >>

Reason why you haven't received a response, despite several requests, could be that none of us know the correct answers to your questions. After all, the EPOC Digest has only 800 subscribers. The chance that there's another digest subscriber in New York who's using a netBook with GPRS Aircard on the T-Mobile network is rather slim.

Generally, there's no problem in using a GSM or GPRS wireless card as they're effectively a mobile phone in PC-Card format. That they're mobile phones means that they're relatively power hungry. Some of these cards, unfortunately, draw more current than a Series 7 or early netBook can supply. Later netBooks allow a PC-Card to draw more current and are therefore the best bet for GSM, GPRS and WiFi cards. When you've got one of the older netBooks you'll need to check that the Aircard's maximum current draw is less than 750 mA.

<< How well does it actually work? >>

Assuming that the GPRS Aircard works in your netBook power supply wise the Aircard will work in the same way as a modem card or your Ericsson I888 World mobile phone. The Aircard behaves as if it is a modem. That you're connecting via a mobile GPRS network is effectively hidden from the netBook and its software. The only thing you need to do is to create a modem definition for the Aircard just as you created a definition for the I888.

<< Can I continue sending and receiving faxes an emails with no problems? >>

Assuming that the card works there will be no problem exchanging e-mails and browsing the web. Whether you're able to send and receive fax messages may be a different matter. E-mail has largely replaced the fax and quite a number of the more recent mobile phones no longer support faxing. When the Aircard is of a recent design it may not support faxing either. Some companies compensate for this by supplying the fax functionality in the form of additional software that's running on the computer rather than on the card. Trouble is that 99.9% of the software is written for Windows PCs and therefore of no use to a netBook owner. What you'll need to check is whether the GPRS Aircard has fax functionality on board.

<< Is it worth getting this aircard or can I just use a newer phone that's GPRS enable with the IR port? >>

You're the only one who's able to supply the answer as it's a question of price, functionality, convenience, etc. What suits me well may not suit you at all, and vice versa.

The advantage of using a card like the GPRS Aircard is that you're completely independent of your mobile phone. You can connect wirelessly without having to draw out your phone, align infrared ports or to mess with cables. Disadvantage is that the Aircard will draw power from the netBook's batteries. Use the card regularly and you have to reckon with a 25% to 50% reduction in the number of hours you can use the netBook.

A GPRS mobile phone doesn't have this disadvantage as it's powered by its own battery pack. Replace you I888 by a GPRS phone and you will get the same number of work hours out of the netBook. Unless GPRS allows you to do a number of things that were too cumbersome or uneconomical with your I888. Another advantage is that you're going to have a much more modern mobile phone. The I888 was already an old clunker at launch as it was based on the then outdated Ericsson 6xx platform. What saved it was its integrated 'GSM modem' facilities. A new phone will be smaller and easier to carry while offering (much) longer talk and standby times. High chance that it will come with a larger and easier to read colour screen. It will be able to store much more phone numbers and allow you to link multiple numbers to a single name .. etc, etc.

Given the general price levels of GPRS cards versus GPRS phones it tends to be more financially attractive to change phone rather than buying an Aircard.

<< Will this IR port work with the 5mx as well? and If so, Is the speed the same as using an aircard? >>

The GPRS phones with an infrared port use the same IrComm specification as your I888 with only very, very few exceptions. I don't think you have to worry about the phone not working with your netBook's infrared port.

As for speed, the PC-Card bus of the netBook is faster than the infrared port. Still, the speed you'll get will be dictated by the wireless GPRS network link rather than by bus or port. Just as the 9600 bps GSM network link of your I888 doesn't tax the infrared port, a GPRS link won't be that fast that it will tax the infrared port either.

What you have to reckon with, however, is that GSM is circuit switched and guarantees a 9600 bps connection under normal conditions. GPRS is network switched, however. It combines the spare capacity of a GSM network and offers it to all GPRS users linked to the same cell tower. You're therefore sharing this capacity with others. The more people are using GPRS at the same time as you the less speed you're going to get. What's more, when somebody makes a GSM call his/her call takes precedence, reducing the GPRS network capacity. In other words, the GPRS speed you're going to get will be variable, also during your GPRS connection. When things are quiet you get the maximum speed the Aircard/Phone can handle. When things are busy you'll get a lower speed. One that can be less than GSM speed when things are really busy. As you're living in the New York area it's likely that you're not going to get the maximum GPRS speed that often.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 25 Jan 2004 22:07:08 +0100

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: UK Power Supply for Netbok

Dear Arne,

<< Standards are not >>

There has been a proposal for an EC wide standard power plug and socket as part of the CEN standardisation of electronic equipment. The proposal didn't make it because it's much easier to supply electronic equipment with a power cord with the new plug than it is to change all the power sockets in the home, the office, factories, etc. Conclusion was that it would be more costly to switch to an EC standard power plug and socket that it would be to keep the various national standards.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 25 Jan 2004 22:07:16 +0100

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Mobile phones and roaming

Dear Alan,

<< It would appear that GSM data calls are much cheaper and not much slower than GPRS data calls >>

That's certainly not the the case. Trouble is that we're dealing with a number of variables that aren't always easy to quantify.

GSM has the advantage that you're given a fixed upload and download speed. It's only under really adverse conditions that speeds will be lower. GPRS, on the other hand, uses the spare capacity of a GSM network as a shared resource. The more GSM voice and data calls are made the less capacity there is for GPRS. And what capacity there is will be shared by you and other GPRS users. Make a GPRS connections when the network is busy and you might get up- and download speeds that are lower than GSM. Trouble is that you'll only know that things are slow when things are slow. And then you're not quite sure whether it's the GPRS connection or the web site (or other) that's slow.

Still, GPRS has the advantage that you're billed for the amount of data transferred rather than the connection time. You're therefore not punished for visiting a web site that visited by a very large number of people. You don't pay for data transmission delays as you do when using GSM. Also the time you take to read web pages doesn't cost you when using GPRS as no data is transferred while reading the page.

This makes it impossible to say that GSM is not much slower than GPRS. Also that GSM is much cheaper than GPRS. It all depends on local conditions (at time of day) as well as what you're charged for GSM and GPRS (roaming or not). When you're dealing with plain text e-mail there may not be that big a difference between the two. When you're dealing with e-mail attachments and/or web browsing it tends to be more economical to use GPRS rather than GSM. Problem is that it isn't easy to find out in advance which of the two is best, give then various tariffs and roaming charges.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 25 Jan 2004 22:07:26 +0100

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Spam & the Digest's anti-spam protection

Dear Owen,

<< I'm a bit surprised that nobody has reacted to the posts from Chris Pulster. I suppose the reason is that his posts are short, on topic and he seems to be leaving a trail of happy customers >>

I don't think it's a EPOC Digest policy but it seems to me that the Digest isn't to be used for commercial purposes. Christopher's messages would, indeed, be unwelcome when we'd follow this as a strict rule.

<< I wonder what would happen if someone we _didn't_ like started posting Psion related stuff for sale on the list >>

I'm inclined to say that it's not a question of like or dislike of a person and/or company. Companies don't always succeed in serving each and every customer well. It would be unfair to bar Christopher, or any other person/company, from posting messages on the basis of the bad experience of one Digest subscriber. I think it's more a question of whether such messages are intrusive - messages that give subscribers the impression that the Digest has been broken into.

The EPOC Digest is a forum for discussion and mutual assistance. As long Christopher, or anybody else representing a company or business, participates while keeping the forum idea in mind than everything will be fine. When one of us is desperately looking for something Christopher can supply there's nothing against him responding like "We have the item you're looking for on stock - please contact us by private e-mail". The questioner is served by Christopher's message, even when (s)he doesn't buy the item from him.

Situation becomes different when the Digest is used to promote a company or business. The EPOC Digest isn't an advertisement medium. That's for such magazines as Palmtop User, PDA Essentials or Pen Computing. So ... no company promotions nor postings of the "Bargain deals of the month". Even though such postings can be informative they clearly go against the forum idea. Still, it's wise not to jump immediately on somebody who's posting such a promotional. The time to do this is when they become a regular feature of the Digest.

<< How could we make that person stop when (s)he can point to the posts from www.pulster.de and say we've been letting Chris get away with it? >>

I realise that what I've written above leaves a grey area - when do postings of a commercial nature really become intrusive? After all, that's subject to personal judgement. Still, it's not that difficult to make a distinction between the Good Ones and the Bad Ones. The Good Ones blend in as they adapt themselves to the nature of the Digest. The Bad Ones stand out by being pushy. They can be told in no uncertain terms that the EPOC Digest isn't for them. The final sanction we have is not to buy anything from them.