- digestMacros

- 9500 SIM card issues - Agenda/CyKey

- Re 9500 - is there a Calc app out there? (Lord Kimberley)

- B-I-G CF cards in Psions

- Copyright - should the law be changed?

- RE: Tomtom CityMaps Europe - MC218 help please!

- Marsland5 - New program for Psion5

- Calc app for the 9500

- The 9300/9500

- Re: Legallity and Morality

- Re: Fashionable Morality

- Re: Freeware

- Re: Comment

- Re: The previous discussion of evolution

- EC regulations for freeware (previous subject lost)

Date: 29 Apr 2005 01:37:23 +0100
From: Jack <address truncated>
Subject: digestMacros

In THEdigest #736 Itamar uttered :
<<<<The easiest way for you would be to subscribe to the HTML version where you can jump to a specific subject, read the message, jump back to the list of subjects and jump again to another subject that does interest you.>>>>

The 2 below Digestmacros does exactly that...
without any HTML needed and sparing bandwidth

REM To use in TheDigest (Thanks! Itamar)
REM To be used with Macro5 (Thanks forever! Pascal)
REM Could be lodged on psience5.net Macros page (Thanks Martin)

PROC Macro:
  Sendkey:("Fn+left,Right,Right,Fn+Shift+Right")
  Sendkey:("Menu,Fn+Shift+left,right,up,up,Right,Enter")
  Sendkey:("Enter")
  Sendkey:("Ctrl+j")
pause 20
  Sendkey:("Fn+down")
ENDP

PROC Macro:
SendKey:("Ctrl+Fn+Left")
SendKey:("Ctrl+f")
SendKey:("Fn+I")
SendKey:("Fn+n")
SendKey:("Fn+ ")
SendKey:("Fn+t")
SendKey:("Fn+o")
SendKey:("Fn+d")
SendKey:("Fn+a")
SendKey:("Fn+y")
SendKey:("Fn+'")
SendKey:("Fn+s")
SendKey:("Fn+ ")
SendKey:("Enter")
SendKey:("Left") SendKey:("down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down,down") SendKey:("up,up,up,up,up,up,up,up,up,up,up,up,up,up,up,up,up,up,up")
ENDP

Jack

Date: 29 Apr 2005 08:48:46 +0100
From: Lord Kimberley <address truncated>
Subject: 9500 SIM card issues - Agenda/CyKey

Hi all,

Has any one else seen this problem? I discovered that although the phone was working the contacts on the SIM card were not available. The phone reported SIM card not ready. In the end it was a case of backup, open up, remove battery, remove memory card, remove SIM card clean contacts and then replace all. The SIM ard contacts then were restored About the only lost setting was the PC Sync profile which switched to Bluetooth as opposed to cable.

One other monor issue. My SIM card as a My Number set of entries. This has the mobile number, home and work numbers. I can view these, but cannot finda way to change them. My home number is well out of date.

Re AgendA keboards - thanks to David who pointed me at CyKey.

--

Yours John.

Tel:       +44 1763 289 732  e-mail:  mailto<address truncated>BR>

Date: 29 Apr 2005 09:45:37 +0100
From: Chris Fox <address truncated>
Subject: Re 9500 - is there a Calc app out there? (Lord Kimberley)

Hi Folks

I've found that SideCalc is an excellent choice.  It takes up so little screen real-estate when in use; I just push it out of the way to the top left corner of the screen where I can use it and see other applications simultaneously.

See http://www.kylom.com/N9500english.shtml

Cheers

Chris Fox
Cheshire
UK

Date: 29 Apr 2005 14:41:06 +0100
From: Phil Aypee <address truncated>
Subject: B-I-G CF cards in Psions

Hi Folks,

Thanks, Bernard & Ian. The explanations make sense.

Bernard, a friend gave me an old 4 MB Hewlett Packard CF. It's far too small to be of any real use - except for experimenting. But he did believe he was being kind!

I wonder if there is an ER5 patch to allow my 5mx to see extended partitions. Or maybe a utility to put two primary partitions on one CF (probably not possible, but you never know). I'd really like to be able to use a B-I-G CF card.

Happy days,
Phil.

"If you don't like yourself,
you *can't* like other people."

http://www.philaypee.co.uk/index.html

Date: 29 Apr 2005 14:41:07 +0100
From: Phil Aypee <address truncated>
Subject: Copyright - should the law be changed?

Hi Folks,

Itamar (pts please!), I believe that the morality most try to live by *is* evolving and that different parts of society have progressed by different amounts in different areas and different ways - and that will continue as long as morality exists. Until then it will be largely subjective, there being differences even between individual understanding. I think you generally agree with this.

I also believe that law is an attempt to put that morality into words and enforce it. But I believe that laws are not always to be obeyed (the shade of Mahatma Ghandi glowers at the idea - ditto Mahatmacane Jeeves). I wouldn't treat a rat the way the Ku Klux Klan believes "inferior races" should be treated. If the law required it, I'd be a joyous criminal. And the law has.

In exactly this context I think that copyright of computer programs cannot remain the same as copyright of writings and recordings. By comparison with "Oh Mr Porter" (one of my favorite films, made in 1937) all software so far is definitely ephemeral - and "Oh Mr Porter" won't be out of copyright for another 2 years!

And I've had to address your point of a lecturer at my university, except I was a student and he was a racist addressing an extracurricular group. We, the students, voted overwhelmingly against an "official" boycott but stayed away. We were successful as his audience was extremely small, only a hardcore of racists who he already knew by name, but he was heard.

So his freedom of speech was upheld and our freedom of choice was underlined. I think it was a good result all round. The idea of "boycotting" him came from a few extreme left-wingers.

Happy days,
Phil.

"People in fields at Chipping Norton,
How will they know the time of day
Should the Twelve Twenty cease to run
Eight minutes late down Didcot way?
And oh! the anguish at the deep heart's core,
The milk train doesn't stop here anymore!"

http://www.philaypee.co.uk/index.html

Date: 29 Apr 2005 15:22:48 +0100
From: K. Liebmann <address truncated>
Subject: RE: Tomtom CityMaps Europe - MC218 help please!

Ed,

I have the same version, same built that you have.

1) My installation by default goes to a directory called Street. So, there are some of these versions around that install to the right place. As to your question, yes, you do have an old version of CityMaps. There was a new release right after I bought mine - CityMaps2003. No patch, no free - cash requested. This had larger maps and more detail. But I am not aware that there was a patch to fix installation problems.

2) As for the update speed, there is a GPS tab in the settings in which you can define the communication frequency between the GPS and the Psion. I think this is set to 15 sec. or so. This could well be the problem. At a speed of 24 km/h = 15 mph the update would happen only every 100 m. I.e. if you travel faster than that, then the next turn might be there already and the Psion still is 100 m behind. My setting is 3 seconds. There might be a similar setting in your GPS how often a new calculation is made and/or communicated.

The other issue might be machine speed indeed. I found that I needed to place the application itself on c:. The maps are on d:. But application on d: was slowing the unit down quite a bit (even with speed optimized partitioning).

3) As pointed out by someone else. Route will show a gray area for the City maps installed and you can switch to the city. This is the only integration that I am aware of. Be sure to switch the GPS off (key-g) before switching over. Then switch the GPS on in Street (again <g> - one of the few keys where they have managed to synchronize the key-commands). Both programs are trying to work with the same port and I had a few unpleasant surprises both programs crashing when trying to switch - I wanted to see more detail not to get lost and then lost program and orientation.

Karsten.

Date: 29 Apr 2005 15:32:34 +0100
From: U Hornstein <address truncated>
Subject: Marsland5 - New program for Psion5

Hello List,
there is a new game program online:
Marsland5
An adaptation of the moonlanding concept to the Psion 5 / EPOC ER5.
*** Freeware ***
Written by P.M.W. Nave for PSION 3c; June 1998.
Ported to Psion 5 / EPOC ER5, with help file, sis file, icon and some amendments in Oct 2003 by Ulrich Hornstein

Available from:
http://psion.uh-lab.de

Modelling Marsland5
Assumptions: straight trajectory which, continued, would go through the center of Mars. The thrust R*S is either on with constant strength or off in every time interval T. The rate of fuel consumption is R kg/s. The equation of motion is:

  (Mo - R*T)(d²x/dt² - A) = R*S

where Mo is the initial total mass, x is the height above ground, t is time and S is the specific thrust. The acceleration A, due to gravity, is assumed to be independent of x. The integrals of this equation are:

  V(t) = -S*LN(1- R*t/Mo) + A*T + Vo
  X(t) = (S*Mo/R)((1-R*t/Mo) *
         LN(1-R*t/Mo) + R * T/Mo) +
         A*T**2/2 + Vo*T + Xo

Xo and Vo are initial values of height and speed, respectively.
--
With greetings from Germany
Ulrich Hornstein
http://psion.uh-lab.de
For spam protection: Please NEVER type my mail address into a www page ("send to a friend" or similar).
Sent by MC218 (EPOC palmtop)

Date: 29 Apr 2005 17:39:35 +0100
From: Kevin Thorne <address truncated>
Subject: Calc app for the 9500

Lord Kimberley wrote:

<Before diving into Google and the like, does anyone know a good Calc app for the 9500?>

You haven't mentioned what you find missing in functionality with the standard built-in Calc app in ROM.  What do you want from it?

Regards
Kevin Thorne

Date: 29 Apr 2005 18:02:31 +0100
From: Kevin Thorne <address truncated>
Subject: The 9300/9500

Reply to Ian Chapple on 9300/9500:

Ian,  I do have to agree with what you were saying about the newer Communicators not being a true Psion replacement.  Having used a 3a, 3c, S5, 5mx and finally a S7 over the years my main machine was formerly a 9210 and is now a 9500 (which I have now owned for around 3 months).  Out of this lot, my old 3c was one of my favourite machines with the 5mx coming a close second!  In my opinion too, the Series 5s were overkill for the average user but great for people who wanted a "real" pocketable computer (most of us Digestees here I'd guess).  Remember the fuss when the first Series 3s hit the market around 1990?  The world's first truly programmable pocket computer released at a time when Casio Databanks ruled!  Going back to my 9500 then, well yes, it's not a true Psion relacement but I'd say it's at least 90% there.  I'm just glad there is a Symbian version of EPOC around to be quite honest, with full colour and wonderful connectivity.  I know a lot of people seem to bemoan the lack of a touchscreen but honestly people, try a Nokia 9500 and you'll soon get used to not having it - just like on the old Series 3s!

Regards
Kevin Thorne

Date: 29 Apr 2005 22:53:50 +0100
From: Alan Morris <address truncated>
Subject: Re: Legallity and Morality

David Steer \(Plus\) <address truncated> wrote:-

<< Now, lets consider bugs in software.  There are two types of bugs in software, those that are known and those that are not known.  Microsoft releases software (especially OS software) with both types of bugs, it is perhaps considered impossible to have several million lines of code and no bugs, it is not even possible to completely test that many lines of code in any reasonable timescale. >>

In the case of M$ software, it is impossible to have code with no bugs, which is why Billy Goat got egg on his face recently, showing his new media windows on it's first outing - it crashed.

Fortunately for Airbus, their new aircraft on it's first outing did not crash.  It's software is probably much more complex.  As a programmer who sold his first major PC software in 1979, my opinion is that all professional software after version x.05, should be virtually bug free.

--
Alan R Morris, G4ENS.
Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, UK.
Using a Psion netBook.

Date: 29 Apr 2005 22:54:53 +0100
From: Rolf Brunsting <address truncated>
Subject: Re: Fashionable Morality

Dear Itamar,

<< Fashionable Morality - These words imply themselves the problem with morality. It is subjective and differs for different parts of the world as well as for groups and part of populations within countries. It is even more subjective when one part of the world starts to judge
morality in other parts of the world, most of the time without delving deep enough into the situation of that other part >>

That there are local, national or regional variations doesn't necessarily mean there are no universal moral values. Think of the UN Declaration Of Human Rights which mentions such things as the freedom
of speech, the freedom from persecution and the freedom of worship. Use the UN Declaration as a yardstick and there are several nations that
can be criticised.

<< The highest morality in Nazi Germany was to be arian and to behave like good Germans ... >>

I'm sorry, but Nazi ideology was based on race - those who were born arian were considered to be the master race that could rule over other races and deal with them as it saw fit. Embracing the Nazi ideology and behaving like a good Nazi should doesn't make you an arian.

<< Was it really moral that the West entered Iraq and got rid of Sadam Hussein? Today I think many more doubt this than when it all started >>

Given the strong disagreement between the USA and the UK and such countries as France, Germany and Belgium it simply can't be said that it's "the West" which invaded Iraq. And was it really moral to allow Saddam Hussein to continue ruling Iraq in a harsh dictatorial fashion? Let's be honest, the modern form of appeasement hasn't been very effective against the regimes of Saddam Hussein, Kim Young Il, Robert Mugabe, etc. There's something to be said in favour of external intervention. Trouble is, we haven't found the right form for it.

<< Is it moral for lecturers at universities to start boycotting lecturers from other countries on the ground of their political affiliation or situation in their countries ? >>

It's perfectly all right for academics to protest against, and boycott, the lectures by academics from countries that violate academic freedom. As the academics that are allowed to lecture outside the country in question tend to be the 'reliable' ones who are part of the system that keeps these violations in place.

<< Or is the freedom of the academic world beyond politics the more moral principle ? >>

Academic freedom is effectively a set of rules to create the conditions in which academic studies can flourish so that human knowledge is expanded. One of these rules is the freedom of enquiry - that academics are free to choose what they want to investigate and that they can follow the paths their investigations lead them to. In other words, no outside interference. Practical situation is that these studies need to be funded. When the Dutch government wants the Netherlands to be one of the leading countries in biotechnology you can be sure that the
Ministry of Education will give more money to the biotechnology department of a university than to the department of arabic studies. Part of a professor's job is to persuade politicians to support the
work of his/her department, preferably that it receives some extra funding.

Another aspect is that what's being studied and how it's being studied isn't always appreciated. Think of the use of animals in biological and biomedical experiments. Some people are of the opinion that experimentation on animals should be banned. While such a ban is the equivalent of "You're free to study bacteria but aren't allowed to use
a microscope" for a number of studies. Needless to say that academics prefer to see the number of animal experiments reduced to a minimum.
But that they don't want to have their hands tied by an outright ban. A dispute in which morality and politics are mixed as those in favour of the ban will put pressure on politicians to stop funding university departments involved in animal experimentation. While fundamentalist Christians don't want the government to spend a single penny on cosmological studies as how the universe evolved is already described
in the Bible.

Finally, the outcome of academic work isn't always appreciated either. The work in particle physics has made us realise that the sun is a
giant thermonuclear furnace. But is has also lead to the development of the atom bomb and the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The
outcome of academic work can therefore lead to moral and political pressures. That there are people who want some studies to be stopped because the knowledge that's gained by them can be used in a terrible way. While academics want to continue these studies as knowledge is neutral.

<< Surely the world can't be ruled on morality, there will have to be laws that put down the principles of society >>

While the principles of society are based on moral and ethical values.

---
Kind Regards,
Rolf Brunsting - Beilen - Netherlands

Date: 29 Apr 2005 23:12:05 +0100
From: Rolf Brunsting <address truncated>
Subject: Re: Freeware

Dear Ian,

<< So far, nothing that Phil has said about the legality of releasing freeware which requires registration has shown why this practise is illegal ... Similarly, nothing that has been said proves that a freeware author is *obliged* to fix bugs ... The problem here is that you say "implies"; as I've already said, there does not appear to be a law *requiring* a freeware author to fix bugs >>

I'm very sorry, but you're a bit selective here. What's been said about freeware is based on what the legality of shareware implies. That it's legal to supply software with a reduced functionality in its unregistered form. I'm afraid the same applies to the EC Consumer Protection Directive. Its "free from defects" implies that the supplied goods need to be repaired by the supplier in case a defect is found.
For "goods" read software, for "defects" read bugs and for "repair" read bug fixing. And the Directive doesn't make a distinction between shareware and freeware just as the International Copyright Convention and copyright law doesn't make a distinction between the two. The distinction is in the extent to which you can be made liable.

OK, I readily accept that you're not fond on the term "free from defects" as used in the Directive. And that you prefer things to be
made explicit - that they're spelled out. However, that's what "free from defects" effectively does within the legal context in which its applied.

<< The success of a particular author and his programs is determined by the quality of the software and the level of support provided; however, I think it is very difficult to apply the law to something as
intangible as freeware, when much of what is available is provided out of the "goodness of one's heart" >>

That it isn't always easy to apply the law doesn't mean that it can't be done. One of the factors that need to weighed is that freeware developers supply software out of the goodness of their heart. Another factor is that freeware may no longer be considered a gift. The
Internet allows freeware to be distributed world-wide so that an application can have thousands and thousands of users. The effects of a bug in an Internet distributed freeware application can be very much greater than a bug in the application I've created and of which I've given you a personal copy.

---
Kind Regards,
Rolf Brunsting - Beilen - Netherlands

Date: 29 Apr 2005 23:29:11 +0100
From: Rolf Brunsting <address truncated>
Subject: Re: Comment

Dear Cyril,

<< I wonder how much of that text-based world really needs colour and graphics, and, whilst on the road and away from mains power, would settle for longer battery life ... >>

Indeed. Do we write a better text when using a computer with a colour screen? I don't think so. Still, it's clear that we prefer not to work in a plain office with plain office furniture, no plants, no pictures on the wall, etc. We like our offices to be a pleasant environment. Well, colour screens create a more pleasant PDA environment even though they're not strictly necessary for many of the things we do with them.

---
Kind Regards,
Rolf Brunsting - Beilen - Netherlands

Date: 1 May 2005 09:20:19 +0100
From: Chris S Handley
Subject: Re: The previous discussion of evolution

(Sorry in advance to the rest of the Digest for the size of this post.  If this is how long the discussion of evolution/etc is going to become, then it might be better to keep it private in the first place!)

Hello Rolf,

It's a pity that you seem to have taken to disputing the motives & integrity of the questioner (i.e. Mr Hogan & even me!), rather than discussing the issues (& evidence) that are raised.  The former path could easily remain unsettled, whatever the true qualities of the questioner, whereas the latter path at least has the possibility of some resolution, by reference to scientific evidence.  Not that yours is an unusual reaction against someone who questions science's emotive theories, unfortunately...

So although I have discussed Mr Hogan (and myself!) this time, please don't expect me to get into a long-running personal discussion, because I won't.


> I haven't read the book but, as it has Kicking The Sacred Cow
> as title, it looks to me that Mr. Hogan is questioning
> authority.

Scientific authority, yes.  I think particularly in the last half century.


> I'm perfectly willing to have another go at explaining why
> these things don't challenge the theory. But there comes a
> point at which I can't find hew ways to explain it.

I'll try to have a look at the Digest archive sometime (searching it using Google), to see what you had to say about it, to find out if you address any of the points that he raises.


> And the reviewer describes the book as "does for hard science
> what the works of Graham Hancock and Erich Von Daniken do for
> the serious study of archeology and history". In other words,
> it's one of those 'Scientists don't want us to know this to
> protect their interests' kind of conspiracy theory Americans
> seem to be very fond of.

Then I'm afraid that the reviewer mis-characterises (in some cases seriously) Mr Hogan's book, even though there may be some similarity on the surface.  What his book is REALLY about is a call for science to be more evidence-based, and hence less reliant on fancy theories that are either (a) beautiful/intuitive but difficult to test, (b) have been patched to hell to keep them matching every new observation (like the church's old crystal spheres!), or (c) where (admittedly) he believes some of the evidence has been ignore or mis-represented.

Also, although Hogan has never mentioned it, I see some parallels with Richard Feynmann's worries about (what he called) Cargo Cult Science - although they are coming from rather different POVs, and use different language.  And you don't get much greater scientific authority than what Mr Feynmann (RIP) had.


> I'm afraid that having a true public debate about scientific
> ideas implies a number of prerequisites that prevent it from
> becoming a public debate.

I'm afraid that you have misunderstood the intention of my brief comment.  I merely meant that discussions (like those on the Digest) should not be halted merly on the ASSURANCE that experts know best - which was just what I did at the end of the last discussion on evolution!  We might as well rely on the government's assurances that it knows what is best for us...

Also, I personally think that the lack of a public discussion about the problems with evolution, big bang & OTHER scientific theories plays INTO the hands of Creationists, who can happily mention the (unpublicised & sometimes serious) flaws to the public, and then suggest their own alternative 'theory'.  It would be a lot better if scientists were candid about the problems & possible solutions, and thus were willing to discuss other SCIENTIFIC alternatives - at least then the public would know that scientists weren't mis-representing the evidence, and that they had potential solutions up their sleeve.


> There's nothing against questioning authority, as
> long as the authority of Mr. Hogan himself is questioned.
> Respect for Mr. Hogan's opinions is one thing. Whether Mr.
> Hogan is right another.

Absolutely - I don't agree with *all* the conclusions he reaches.  And in fact on many topics he professes to NOT have any idea of the answers, and simply explains why a *number* of alternative theories seem to fit the facts better than (or at least as well as) the established theory.

It is also worth noting that he includes extensive references, so that one can check-up on what he is saying, rather than take it at face value.  I will certainly do so when time & interest permits.


> Hmmmmmm ... Dark Matter - Black Holes - Oort Cloud - Big Bang
> - The mechanism of natural selection - CO2 as greenhouse gas
> - Catastrophy alternative to Plate Tectonics - The sun not
> being a giant fusion reactor - C14 and other time scales -
> Alternatives to Einstein's General Relativity.
>
> Again, I haven't read Mr. Hogan's Kicking The Sacred Cow. But
> when it's Mr. Hogan's book that his triggered or reinforced
> your doubts on the above it becomes clear what Mr. Hogan is
> aiming at. The items I've picked out have all to do with the
> formation of the universe, the formation of stars and
> planets, how life evolved and the speed at which this all
> took place. This, combined with your use of "scientific
> dogma", is a strong indicator that Mr. Hogan wants us to take
> the Intelligent Design theory

You are right that he think there's a good case to be made for Intelligent Design (which should NOT be mixed-up with Creationism, even though some Creationists may advocate it!), which he covers in the first chapter.

What I don't understand is how you think Intelligent Design (as an alternative to evolution) has anything to do with "Dark Matter - Black Holes - Oort Cloud", "CO2 as greenhouse gas", "The sun not being a giant fusion reactor", and "Alternatives to Einstein's General Relativity".  (Not to mention HIV/AIDS.)

Even the alternatives to the Big Bang, Plate Tectonics, and measurements of time scales, doesn't necessarily imply a younger world/universe - particularly regarding the Big Bang (where the alternatives are more likely to suggest an OLDER universe).

Certainly he may point out how some alternatives theories may link together, but to imply that his book is essentially a Creationist book in disguise is beyond ridiculous (and the more so since you haven't read it).

What I can say for sure is that he doesn't have a history of believing in creationism, or even of questioning scientific belief, and in fact he has been a strong optimist & proponent of science until relatively recently.  (And actually he still is pro-science, just not with how it is sometimes done.)

It is also worth noting that he was expecting a lot of vitriol to be poured on him by scientists, but apparently the response has been relatively good so far.  I might suggest that is because the arguments he makes (and the evidence he mentions) are generally good, although it might also be because the current scientists are embarrased at how Velikovsky was treated by the previous generation (which he covers in some detail).


BTW, regarding black holes, I don't recall Mr Hogan ever mentioning them - those doubts are entirely on my own back, albiet influenced by his call for a more evidence-based science.


> Trouble is, the Intelligent Design theory is effectively the
> first chapter of the Bible - the Book of Genesis - dressed up
> modern clothes and presented as science.

Hmmmm, I think you must have read a COMPLETELY different version of ID to me - presumably the one you've seen came from some Creationists.  Unless you can explain what you think ID is, the best I can do is say go read the first chapter of Hogan's book, and also I should mention that "Intelligence" does not necessarily imply a god - it could easily have been an advanced alien race (which I have a far easier time believing in, being a hard-SF fan & firm athiest).

That said, when I started reading the first chapter, I became really quite upset at some of the things he was saying, and almost didn't read the rest of the book.  Thankfully I did, and upon read the first chapter again with a cooler head, found that many of the points that he makes are good ones (and a few aren't).  So to be honest, Hogan might have been better-off without the chapter on evolution in his book, to avoid the emotional rhetoric it is likely to cause.  But as it demonstrates some of the fallacies which he thinks science has fallen into, and as evolution also forms a backdrop for much of modern science, I guess he decided to leave it in.

Personally I still don't think the baby (the basic idea of evolution) should be chucked-out with the bath water (the specific mechanisms supposedly accounting for the creation of new species), at least without a lot more evidence.  But that shouldn't stop ID being investigated too, since there seem some good reasons to consider it...


> when it's Mr. Hogan's book that his triggered or
> reinforced your doubts on the above

Not really.  The more I've learnt about *certain* theories OVER THE YEARS, the more I've had difficulty accepting them - but I had always reassured myself that the experts on the subject must know the answers, and left it at that.  All Mr Hogan did was show that some of those doubts were well placed, and hence I have concluded that it is perfectly reasonable to discuss percieved problems with theories - whatever assurances are made by the experts.

Also, in other cases, I never examined the theory REALLY closely, simply because I happily accepted the expert's statements that it was indisputable.  On closer examination there do sometimes seem to be possible problems, and particularly in these cases Mr Hogan has saved me the trouble of finding evidence to show that those problems should be taken seriously.

And of course, in other cases he has raised problems with theories which I had never had any cause to even think about, such as with CFCs supposedly causing the ozone 'hole'.  There are even problems with how the dinosaurs could have lived on Earth (!), but he has never directly addressed that issue in great detail.  I guess you could imagine the latter issue has Creationist overtones, but that's simply because you don't know the details, and are seeing Creationist's lurking in all the dark corners, much like the Bogey man...

---
Chris Handley

Visit the web page email.cshandley.co.uk for my address

P.S.  I know you have a habit of assuming that everyone who holds a different opinion to you is stupid or ill-educated, but I would like to assure that I am not.  I may not be a scientist, but I did science up to A-level, and have been an avid reader of the New Scientist mag since a very young age, so that I'm well-versed on the ins & outs of many of Science's theories.  I can only be thankful that NS is often willing to ALSO publish articles on alternative theories to the current ones, although obviously ID is not one of them.

Date: 1 May 2005 09:20:22 +0100
From: Chris S Handley
Subject: EC regulations for freeware (previous subject lost)

Rolf,

As I'd already mentally left this discussion to others (since I don't think there's anything useful left to say...), I'll try to be brief - although you make it quite hard to do that! :-)


> Funny thing is that both Phil Aypee and yourself are very
> quickly talking about morality.

Actually I *started* my discussion by talking about morality, although it wasn't until my second post that I clarified that was what I meant by "obligation".


> you [talk] about the morality of an EC regulation like the
> Consumer Protection Directive.

Eh?  Maybe I forgot what I said, but AFAIR I *never* said the EC regulation was immoral or any such thing!  I said is was ridiculous (i.e. against common sense), which is something completely different, and I then went on to say that ignoring ridiculous laws may be one approach.


> You have a number of rights which
> can't be taken from you by the actions of software users. And
> you demonstrate that by supplying and application like
> TubeRoute under the GNU GPL License. A license in which the
> rights of the software author are recognised and which
> explains why, and under which conditions, these rights aren't
> fully expressed.
>
> Which begs the question why TubeRoute users need to respect
> and observe the GNU GPL License when you effectively dismiss
> the minimum rights of the software user by calling the
> Consumer Protection Directive ridiculous.

I'm afraid that you're not talking much sense from my POV:

I respect most laws most of the time, and the fact that I think a few are patently ridiculous in some situations (and therefore may choose to ignore them), doesn't mean that I think no-one should obey any laws!

You appear to be taking a black & white view on laws, which is certainly the easy way, but I don't think it's the most helpful in the grey real world.  Because laws (unfortunately) ARE black & white, they won't always make sense in some situations, and at that point they must either be clarified by additional laws (as hopefully the DMCA will be), or their interpretation will be clarified in court (by setting a precedent).


BTW, anyone thinking that the GNU GPL license is ridiculous would do well to consider that even IBM uses it extensively (and hence must think it pretty good).  And of course Microsoft sees it as a huge threat (read the so-called Halloween documents if you don't believe me), so they must see it as quite difficult to bypass too.

---
Chris Handley

Visit the web page email.cshandley.co.uk for my address

(N.B. This page temporarily seems down, and I am trying to get it sorted.  You can use http://cshandley.web.users.btopenworld.com/email.htm until I do.)